Look...... another LFR sucks thread?
The forums are flooded with the topic, why opening a new one?
Look...... another LFR sucks thread?
The forums are flooded with the topic, why opening a new one?
I think the problem you're having is excepting that the majority of players who aren't as "good" as you think you and your guild are, are seeing and killing the last bosses of current end game content. Back in the day when there was only one set difficulty only experienced and skilled players could make it to the end and that was a good feeling, you can still have that feeling if you ignore all of the "baddies" who do LFR and just raid with your guild. I can totally see where you're coming from though, even when I was a noob and couldn't even fathom raids, I always looked at all the max level people in awe because they were the skilled bad-asses of the time. and I accepted that that gear and that content took time, skill, and coordination in a raid group.
It's OPTIONAL. How in the hell are you letting an OPTIONAL feature ruin your raiding experience?
I agree that seeing bosses for the first time on LFR is lame. Do you know what I do? I don't do a LFR until I've killed all those bosses on normal. I'm currently restricted to both Mogu'Shan Vaults LFRs, haven't even stepped into Heart of Fear until my group kills Garalon.
Honestly, the amount of "problems" that can be so easily solved by player decision is staggering, and this is one of the dumbest problems with one of the simplest solutions.
For some odd reason ppl do think LFR is raiding. I have RL friends tell me they are raiding one night and asking me boss strats then it hits me, when they say 25m its LFR. But the ability to farm from it and have an easier time in the current content raids is a + really for those who have multiple max lv chars & not a lot of time on just 1.
LFR started a week late. Every regular raider could see the end of a raid before the "occasional laid back raid interested player".
I refuse to use the term casual. There are world class raiders who do play casually... Signing on to the game to raiding only makes you a casual player by definition, for example.
Theoretically, the Worlds best raiders could also argue why the normals can tackle fresh content, whereas they haven't cleared the old stuff yet on Heroic....
The main point of LFR is for casual players or players without much time, maybe only a couple hours a week to play, to be able to see content. If you would rather experience the content in normal mode, don't do LFR. Go clear it in normal and get that 'epic' feel, then go back to LFR for upgrades. And if you argue that you need the upgrades from LFR, I argue that the 'epic' feel you're searching for will be even more epic if you do it without getting gear from LFR.
Other people doing LFR doesn't ruin raids for me. And it great for my alts.
Yes, any game should had an ultimate goal, something that require at least a little of effort and time, it's good for the game itself.
I remember a few years ago a lot of friends ask me about Illidan and Yogg'saron without even know the game, Black Temple and Ulduar didn't became legends because they was easy and acessible, today thanks to the LFR we never gonna see something like that again, it doesn't matter if the Last Boss is a big epic Dragon or the Leader of an Legion of Demons he will be defeated without no effort by 25 ppl that even know the fight...
Not saying that this is your attitude, Wildtree
Someone who feels they need the LFR loot for their normal/heroic progression is likely simply not that good either after all.
Decent raiders have no use for LFR. That portion has been pretty much solved, and was stated so by Blizz too before MoP was released.
Normal modes are tuned to master them in 5 man heroic blues. You have a choice there.
Either go with your path, and stay pure, or go and do LFR for a slight gear boost. But when you choose to do that, stop looking down upon it.
It's hypocrisy to try to gain an advantage from something, you despise at the same time.
Damn, some of you took this opinion personally. I'm not saying LFR players are bad, or that my guild is superior to be the only ones who deserve to see the content. We're far from it, and we have much to aspire to still. I think I made that abundantly clear in my post.
LFR is certainly optional. As is doing heroics dungeons prior to raiding, buying enchants, gemming, etc. However, it's generally considered unacceptable behavior to be skipping out on upgrade routes that benefit your raid. I rather doubt many guilds would accept such a mentality from their players.
To my earlier point, regardless of whether they are optional or not, the boss and zone gets cheapened when there a loot pinata version of it available. Yes, that version can be avoided, but this is an MMO - not a single player game. Yes, it'll be more fun killing it on normal and heroic difficulty, that's for sure - but some of that value is lost along the way.
Last edited by Mehdi; 2012-11-20 at 04:15 PM.
I don't see why it would ruin anyone's experience. It can be avoided altogether if you choose.... you may as well argue that normal modes ruin the raid experience because you aren't seeing the encounter at it's *true* difficulty.
For someone like me, who lacks the motivation to join a guild and play this game on a schedule, they're a perfect way to at least see content.
"Look around you. We're all liars here, and every one of us is better than you" - PB
"I see we have visitors. Two arms!" - Mar'tak
Although I don't mind LFR and do it for two reasons, 1) to cap my valor asap, 2) to gets some epics so I can DE them into crystals.
That being said, It would be nice if it didn't exist at all. There was a certain expansion called WotLK where people made pug raids and those pugs were very successful. I think it was the best way to go. You had the normal modes for the casuals/puggers, and heroic mode for the hardcores. It was an extremely successful raid formula along with an extremely successful easy difficulty heroics but without the lfg (before lfg was introduced). You had your guilds, and then your had the server community as well. Getting groups for heroics wasn't difficult, because the heroics themselves weren't difficult, unlike TBC were you HAD to get a player who had a few epics to prove he was a pro or someone you already knew. WotLK was for me, looking at my main (which I did heroic modes on) and my alt (which I did normal modes with), the best way to go.
The current system in MoP would have been perfect if lfr didn't exist. But it does, so use it to your benefits. It shouldn't diminish your raiding experience because you completed the easiest version of a raid. It's like saying normal modes diminish raiding experience because you have to do them before heroic versions.
I think the feeling you're missing is of everyone being on the same level, and on that same level, the different types of players are higher or lower on it. In BC it wasn't just that you fought hard to see Vash'J and her bridge thing, or see Kael'Thas and his cute Belf RP but it was also that you knew of all the players playing the game, you got to see this content, and it was available to them in the same, difficult way. I underlined that so people wouldnt flip on "i get to see the hard content" part.
Thats part of what makes LFR a silly deal for me. Aside from the free extra loot to do my normal/heroic raids.
Edit to add: Its not just about personally experiencing the raid boss for yourself, and LFR spoiling it, a lot of this online-fun-having is partly knowing that you're competeting on a level playing field with people. So when randoms kill end game raid bosses, weather it be as difficult as the version you killed, its a little demeaning to the experiencing. Should we just get over it and say well its okay that 90% of raid able people have seen a version of the end game boss because its how they play? I mean, I guess so. But it doesnt exclude that its less meaningful to you, and the higher end raiding population aswell.
Adding: I agree'd with the BC and even Wotlk raid model. Wotlk being as in stated above that people would pug the easy normals and the hardcores had their heroics to work on. Although this still left the inbetweeners dangling for finding their identity. Atleast it gave some sort of reason to be on a server to begin with, you know, playing with the people on your realm instead of a bunch of people that mean nothing to you but a role in a lfr.
Last edited by Rorillane; 2012-11-20 at 04:18 PM.
-Casual players an avenue to see the pve raid content in the game, which they are paying for just like you are. Their rewards however are a full tier below your rewards for progressing through regular mode content, and 2 tiers below heroic mode content.
-An opportunity for raiding guilds to have an extra chance at tier gear, for set bonuses, to aid in speeding up progression in regular/heroic content, as well as other possible upgrades for progression.
-A great "intro training ground" for raiders. We frequently do LFR just to get a look at what the normal mode fight will be similar to (with additional difficutly of course) so we're better prepared than watching a video only.
-A haven for alts
LFR does not provide end game gear, nor does it provide the titles awarded to those who clear the harder pve raid content.
Obviously, I like the LFR idea, just my 2 cents. Ultimately, we all pay the same amount to play this little game and Blizzard will never please all 10 million people. So if you don't like something in game, steer clear of it.
It's not what you want in life, it's what you get, and what you do with it!
I enjoyed raiding back in Vanilla and remember like it was yesterday the screams and holars of finally getting BWL cleared.
but that's because I was excited for the guild and our hard work..
Currently with LFR I enjoy it because being in the Navy I can't be part of a raiding guild but I still get a bigger fight vs 5 mans to death.
...Made it through 9 years of wow...