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  1. #41
    I like LFR because I'm usally busy when it comes to raiding with the guild, but if you don't like it then there's nothing wrong with having a different opinion.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Although I don't mind LFR and do it for two reasons, 1) to cap my valor asap, 2) to gets some epics so I can DE them into crystals.

    That being said, It would be nice if it didn't exist at all. There was a certain expansion called WotLK where people made pug raids and those pugs were very successful. I think it was the best way to go. You had the normal modes for the casuals/puggers, and heroic mode for the hardcores. It was an extremely successful raid formula along with an extremely successful easy difficulty heroics but without the lfg (before lfg was introduced). You had your guilds, and then your had the server community as well. Getting groups for heroics wasn't difficult, because the heroics themselves weren't difficult, unlike TBC were you HAD to get a player who had a few epics to prove he was a pro or someone you already knew. WotLK was for me, looking at my main (which I did heroic modes on) and my alt (which I did normal modes with), the best way to go.

    The current system in MoP would have been perfect if lfr didn't exist. But it does, so use it to your benefits. It shouldn't diminish your raiding experience because you completed the easiest version of a raid. It's like saying normal modes diminish raiding experience because you have to do them before heroic versions.
    I think we're in agreement with you entirely. My point on the diminished experience is more tied to you points, rather than being centered around just the difficulty level. Rather, I think the difficulty level and the system itself is just a catalyst to the problem it creates.

  3. #43
    For people who do real raids, it's something easy/casual to do with friends. For people who can't/don't want to do real raids it offers a bit of gear progression. Seems like a decent addition to the game for either purpose. To me it feels pretty similar to raiding content my guild had on farm, which is 90% of the "raid experience" anyways. I mean, how long did most guilds spend progressing through, say, BT, versus farming it? For my guild I want to say we cleared the whole place within a month, and then spent close to a year farming it. That's what LFR feels like, BT farm runs except with random people.
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  4. #44
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehdi View Post
    To my earlier point, irregardless of whether they are optional or not, the boss and zone gets cheapened when there a loot pinata version of it available. Yes, it'll be more fun killing it on normal and heroic difficulty, that's for sure - but some of that value is lost along the way. Then again, I guess the community has changed quite dramatically and maybe I haven't.
    here we can agree to disagree

    First of, the Normal/Heroic mode has so far always opened up earlier, with the exception of the last wing..
    That was merely because of the huge difference of the difficulties. Normal/Heroic are not quite comparable with LFR.
    You may say it is, and it is probably true down the road, with the final raid which gets usually nerfed by a staggering buff over time. But until then, the difference is really significant.
    See I am one of those people who nowadays only raid once in a while with the guild. I am more than just glad to have a basic clue when I get in there for the higher modes for the first time. I won't die for stupid reasons, because I know what's coming. I don't need a whole rundown of the encounter. Just the few differences that are there and important, plus the raid strat.
    I do LFR for the hell of it. Not even every week.
    But then I also realize that I may not be the "typical" Raider material. I have never, even during my serious raiding times, set foot in a raid for gear.
    I always raided for the special feeling of doing something together with 9,19,24 like minded people. To have fun with buddies. Eager for the little anecdotes to happen, that live on forever in our memories and still give us a good laugh. Every guild with long term raid groups has their fond memories of their Leeroy moments.
    I forgot how it was when a boss was killed for the first time, every single time.
    I did not forget the social moments tho.

    I wish more people would approach the game that way then we wouldn't have such topics at all.

  5. #45
    LFR imo is still too difficult. I feel like I need to dps/heal/tank while I'm on a boss fight and don't think this is right.

    I'm paying $15/month for epics and boss kills, and now I'm faced with having to become part of a "raid group" just to achieve this? This is absolutely ridiculous!!!

    Raid bosses should be available to 1-player raids --- as I don't see why I'm forced to accompany others in order to accomplish my in-game goals...

  6. #46
    For future tiers LFR is meant to be its own path. For a guild clearing heroic modes, they will already have gear better than the next LFR so will never need to run it (you don't get tier from LFR so that reason is removed). I can't remember how it works for those doing normal modes, they may still want to run LFR but assuming they apply the gradual nerf most normal mode guilds should be able to get some heroic loot before the next tier. So if you don't have to run it, it wont spoil your raid experience.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehdi View Post
    My guild for example, while we're still working our way through finishing HoF, will now be face rolling our way through Terrace today in LFR... what the hell!

    Am I crazy?
    You don't belong in LFR, yet you're complaining that LFR is to easy. I don't belong in normal mode dungeons. So when I go and run a normal mode dungeon, there is no reason for me to complain about how easy it is.

    One thing I see and hear a lot is Normal\heroic raiders complaning how easy LFR. Yet you would complain 10 times more if LFR was only 15% easier than normal mode and normal mode was a wipe fest. Look at all the wiped groups on Will of the Emporer and Garalon. How many times do you que and get a 2/6 pop up?

    Add to that, the joy of trolls and griefers who like to do all they can to wipe groups. We had a asshat the other day that would start Will of Emp when only half the group was in the room. The monkey who pops hero\bloodlust has the last mob dies before Elegon. And you want to make it easier for them to cause grief, by making the dungeons harder ? You want more arcane explosions like on Feng so people can purposely stand with the healers and wipe the group ?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehdi View Post
    I've been playing WoW since Vanilla, but I went on hiatus towards the first tier of raiding in Cata. Coming back at the tail end of the expansion, I was pretty surprised and excited about the introduction of LFR. It seemed like a wonderful way for a casual or returning player like myself to enjoy this new content.

    What I didn't realize or know, up until this expansion, was that LFR is released nearly the same time as the normal mode content! This does not sit well with me at all. It's not because I'm elitist. Rather, LFR is so darn faceroll, that you get to see all the content right off the bat... instead of having to work you tail off to make it to the next stage.

    My guild for example, while we're still working our way through finishing HoF, will now be face rolling our way through Terrace today in LFR... what the hell!

    Don't you remember that feeling seeing Rag the first time after weeks (months) of working your tail off? Neferian? Kel'Thuzad? Lich King? ... walking into his chamber, that rush of finally making it but knowing your battle isn't yet over. Then... that... final... kill. The rush is awesome, right? Well... now you get to see it in week 2, and facerollolol the boss while ignoring all his mechanics. WTF!

    Look... LFR has it's place. However, as far as I'm concerned, Blizzard is ruining the experience that raids had provided us. They should do one of two things (a) release LFR much later down the road OR (b) tune LFR to actually be difficult, where you MAY NOT actually finish it, then tune it down two months later


    Am I crazy?
    You're not crazy, but personally I don't care about "seeing" the rooms and boss models at a lower difficulty before doing them on Heroic. I thought I would, but I don't.

    So much has changed. The encounters are analyzed and dissected long before they hit live anyway, due to PTR testing. On top of this, you have top world guilds releasing videos a week (sometimes days) after the 1st kill... which is WAAAY before mere mortals even attempt those encounters. The mystery is gone.

    Just my opinion, but I think each difficulty level should have a phase or even a feature that is not included in the lesser difficulty. For example, Heroic Ragnaros really stands out as the top encounter over the past few years (certainly since Heroic Lich King), and one of the big reasons for that was seeing him climb out of his lava pit. People nerdgasmed over "LEGS" (which was just the final phase transition) louder than most boss kills I could remember.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdooper View Post
    Raid bosses should be available to 1-player raids --- as I don't see why I'm forced to accompany others in order to accomplish my in-game goals...
    Your wish is granted
    Everyone can solo stuff... hehe...
    And hey Blizzard even listened again, and removes the raid group requirement to it make easier to solo old raids

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehdi View Post
    I think we're in agreement with you entirely. My point on the diminished experience is more tied to you points, rather than being centered around just the difficulty level. Rather, I think the difficulty level and the system itself is just a catalyst to the problem it creates.
    Casual/Pug groups are still very active in Normal modes on my server as they were back in the day. LFR just gives you something to do in the off time
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamadenhu View Post
    If LFR is spoiling the experience of seeing the raid for the first time, DON'T DO IT. Simple as that.
    Geezus. People that keep saying this. Yea sure dont do it. However Blizzard tuned the fights in normal with LFR loot considered in mind. Also it doesnt change the fact that you will see people running around left in right in the gear from the current raid tier. Which they didnt get from normal mode but from lfr. Also changes the experience of being some of the rare people on your server that actual got a raid together and downed something worth while to earn that loot.


    ITS PLAIN AND SIMPLE> LFR is in fact ruining the experience of raiding in WoW. And its a simple solution. They should not have spoiled casuals from the get go when they released LFR. LFR was a good idea. But it should be current content. For example LFR should just now be being released for MV. It should always be two instances behind. And that would fix the problem.
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  12. #52
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    I think OP is really saying 'is it ruining the experience for someone who also currently raids normal or heroic". I do not believe this is a I HATE LFR thread. For those that only raid LFR - OP is saying that it is a great feature. But he's asking for those that do normal mode - does downing and seeing all these bosses before getting to them in normal (or heroic) and struggling a little bit before downing them - ruin that first kill feel, because hell - you did it a month ago in LFR. For me it did, but very very little - I knew going into it what LFR is... a loot pinata joke - and just cross your fingers and hope for drops to help you with normal mode.

    But I see your point, and thought it myself - because obviously downing DW the week it was realesed in LFR was kinda a bummer knowing I wouldn't even see him in normal mode for 1 month...

    I believe we are calling LFR a *spoiler* here.

  13. #53
    Well to be fair, they actually delayed EACH LFR raid a week after the normal version went live. Dragon Soul LFR went live at the same time the normal version did. I will admit, that DID ruin DS for me. I'm fine with them staggering it at week after the normal mode is released. That way I can see things in normal first and then if we don't clear everything in the first week I can go see the fights later in LFR to at least experience some of the fight. It won't be the same as normal exactly but it gives you a rough idea of what to expect.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgrym View Post

    Just my opinion, but I think each difficulty level should have a phase or even a feature that is not included in the lesser difficulty. For example, Heroic Ragnaros really stands out as the top encounter over the past few years (certainly since Heroic Lich King), and one of the big reasons for that was seeing him climb out of his lava pit. People nerdgasmed over "LEGS" (which was just the final phase transition) louder than most boss kills I could remember.
    I can agree with this. ^ Good post.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    You don't belong in LFR, yet you're complaining that LFR is to easy. I don't belong in normal mode dungeons. So when I go and run a normal mode dungeon, there is no reason for me to complain about how easy it is.

    One thing I see and hear a lot is Normal\heroic raiders complaning how easy LFR. Yet you would complain 10 times more if LFR was only 15% easier than normal mode and normal mode was a wipe fest. Look at all the wiped groups on Will of the Emporer and Garalon. How many times do you que and get a 2/6 pop up?

    Add to that, the joy of trolls and griefers who like to do all they can to wipe groups. We had a asshat the other day that would start Will of Emp when only half the group was in the room. The monkey who pops hero\bloodlust has the last mob dies before Elegon. And you want to make it easier for them to cause grief, by making the dungeons harder ? You want more arcane explosions like on Feng so people can purposely stand with the healers and wipe the group ?
    I'm sorry, but unless you've got your tier pieces and have all your items 489 or higher, and are valor capped - skipping LFR is skipping on an upgrade route.

    Yes, it's possible to get griefed in LFR. It's also possible to AFK through it week 1. Garalon was an exception for like ... 3 days of LFR being out? I see no reason why LFR can't be harder, to the extent that your randomized group actually has to TRY in order to get loot.

    If anything, up the difficulty and use a GW2 / Warhammer loot system that influences your roll based on how hard you try ( based on active time, avoidable damage avoided, inturrupts made, dispells made, etc ).

  16. #56
    Again someone is crying and whining about something that is 100% optional in the game. You are NOT required to ever use LFR or LFG, so your point then becomes invalid. Next...

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgrym View Post
    You're not crazy, but personally I don't care about "seeing" the rooms and boss models at a lower difficulty before doing them on Heroic. I thought I would, but I don't.

    So much has changed. The encounters are analyzed and dissected long before they hit live anyway, due to PTR testing. On top of this, you have top world guilds releasing videos a week (sometimes days) after the 1st kill... which is WAAAY before mere mortals even attempt those encounters. The mystery is gone.

    Just my opinion, but I think each difficulty level should have a phase or even a feature that is not included in the lesser difficulty. For example, Heroic Ragnaros really stands out as the top encounter over the past few years (certainly since Heroic Lich King), and one of the big reasons for that was seeing him climb out of his lava pit. People nerdgasmed over "LEGS" (which was just the final phase transition) louder than most boss kills I could remember.
    Great point about PTR, and I think your suggest is an awesome one which would satisfy this ... feeling I'm talking about.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by bgwilly31 View Post
    Geezus. People that keep saying this. Yea sure dont do it. However Blizzard tuned the fights in normal with LFR loot considered in mind.
    Uhh, normal is tuned to be done in 463 blues. LFR just makes it easier to gear for it. There was even a blue post about it in one of the "LFR is mandatory" threads on the official forums.
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  19. #59
    Well... now you get to see it in week 2, and facerollolol the boss while ignoring all his mechanics.
    Killing a boss on LFR isn't an accomplishment; stop comparing it to content that actually was an accomplishment to clear. LFR isn't even meant to feel like an accomplishment for people who want challenging content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehdi View Post

    Look... LFR has it's place. However, as far as I'm concerned, Blizzard is ruining the experience that raids had provided us. They should do one of two things (a) release LFR much later down the road OR (b) tune LFR to actually be difficult, where you MAY NOT actually finish it, then tune it down two months later


    Am I crazy?
    No, you're just ignorant about what LFR is meant for, but others already explained it.

    Why should release dates for LFR be pushed down the road? Because your guild can't clear Normal fast enough and LFR is "ruining" your experience because you see LFR before Normal?

    LFR being difficult is a disaster. Were you not around for the first week of HoF LFR? Days upon days of 2/6 HoF because Garalon kept every mechanic from Normal mode on a fight where one person can wipe the entire the raid by standing in the purple circle; that isn't a fight meant for LFR until the nerfs it has received to compensate for LFR. Difficult content in Dungeon Finder/Raid Finder does not work; Cata Heroics at release were too hard for pugs and the average player and Garalon proved that mechanics need to be either removed entirely, have an added cooldown, or have the damage reduced so significantly that it doesn't matter so much if you don't do it right. Face it, we've hit rock bottom when not standing in the purple circle is too hard for people and Blizzard had to nerf the fight three times. LFR has to be tuned to those mouthbreathers.

    PS once you down Normals and Heroics enough, then you won't even need to step foot into LFR.

  20. #60
    Just don't go in....simple fix.

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