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  1. #21
    Same on our altrun i play resto/enha shaman. Only valor items 489 necks for both spec. Have 470 ilvl and we downed 6/6 MoV 4/6 HoF and we spend nearly all week for main progress. Daily quests is really not necessary.. Even if you dont get any gear from bosses raids doable.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    I honestly have a hard time taking this seriously when raiders are complaining about sitting on 200+ lesser coins that they can't turn in because they're doing so many dailies that they're exceeding the weekly limit on elder coins.
    Make that 2000+. I have enough coins to last for 5 months without doing a single daily quest.

    This coin discussion is really BS. It's not even an effort to get 90 charms per week, if you're even too lazy for that, you just don't deserve to get the extra loot from bosses.
    When my alt turned 90 yesterday I tried to get the charms for that week, and guess what, you can get 90 charms in A SINGLE DAY. I mean, how lazy can people get that they are upset they have to do daily quests for 10 minutes per day (or 1h per week) to get 90 charms? If you feel this is too much effort, you should probably stop doing endgame content at all.

  3. #23
    Mechagnome Aquarela's Avatar
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    I like dailies, I have free time so I do them.
    some days I do not have time/don't want to do them and I don't do them.

    My raid team is 6/6 MSV with a 19% try on the 1st boss of HoF we are not hardcore (we only raid on weekends) so yeah, I don't feel forced to do dailies at all.

  4. #24
    Annnnndddd....we've circle back around to this "nothing is necessary argument". If we want to start to argue that coins aren't necessary because you don't NEED them to clear content, or you are making a choice because you want to raid, etc. then we can start to look at things like: It's not necessary to run dungeons, lots of people play without doing them, it's not necessary to have professions, lots of people play with out them, it's not necessary to have flasks and potions to raid, lots of people play with out them, it's not even necessary to level, blizz has stated a very high percentage of their subscriber base doesn't have a single level capped toon.

    However here's the truth from MY perspective: I want to raid. In Cata, raiding at the level I wanted to involved leveling to 85, gearing through heroic dungeons (which also granted rep in the factions I needed (therazane, plus helm chant)), then providing enough flasks and pots for the week (as well as gold for repairs). Now in order to raid at the same level I have to do all this plus dailies (a huge investment of time front loaded to get the VP vendors unlocked, plus a more moderate amount each week, and please don't tell me running 45 dailies takes you an hour a week, that's a flat out lie), plus a number of heroic dungeons (or challenge mode, scenarios, etc.) to cap valor each week, so I can take advantage of the rep vendors that I spent a ton of time unlocking.
    The issue is not that there ARE dailies (fine I'll even give into the argument that dailies are a privilege I pay for, in the event I some day decide to stop raiding and find I have nothing else to do, and yet still want to keep paying the $15 a month for a game I'm apparently otherwise bored with?), the issue is that Dailies are something that have previously been there for the "solo" player or the player that liked questing or non-raid/non-pvp "progression". Now in the expansion where Blizzard says they saw in the past they "forced" PVP'ers to PVE for their BiS gear, and don't want to repeat that, they are forcing Raiders to do Questing for their progression gear (and in the case of normal mode guilds that don't WANT to raid heroics, some of that gear IS their BiS). It just seems hypocritical of them to say that PVPers were "forced" to PVE because there were upgrades there for them, but somehow they aren't "forcing" pve'ers to do dailies because there are upgrades for them.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Arridor View Post
    The thing with dailies is they're the exact opposite of "optional" - they're mandatory for some, and useless for others, there's no middle ground, which is what "optional" is. Congratulations, you're in the latter bag, but a feature shouldn't be that... polarising.
    First response nailed it

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    Dailies aren't about rep gear for raiders. It's all about the coins. That's where it's mandatory.
    Which is a minimal effort to max out for the week. Raiders don't have to spend hours grinding mobs for drops to cover raid mats anymore. Heaven forbid they do SOMETHING outside of their 1-2 nights a week in the raid.

    Tillers gives 5 or 6 dailies per day and I've timed full completion as low as 10 minutes. At 6 that's 48 lesser coins for the week to get a freakin' BONUS ROLL. 15 minutes a day for over half the coins needed to get your damn weekly turn in. And if you're doing heroics for valor what the hell are you doing while in queue? "I hate dailies so I'd rather sit and do nothing while I wait" is a pretty damn lame approach.

    After you've been raiding you're going to progressively use less coins on bonus rolls per week. Meaning if you do less dailies, but still some, you're accumulating coins you aren't using until next raid tier. If you wind up with 60 elder coins in 5.2 raids that's a helluva lot of bonus rolls without doing more dailies. People are already complaining they have HUNDREDS of lesser coins. I think I know someone with 6 stacks of lesser coins right now. That's a helluva lot of turn ins without doing anymore dailies.

    And I've never seen raiders posting thread after thread demanding Blizzard made raid only pattern drops available outside of raids.

    You do a little daily questin' you do some heroics or challenge modes, you do some LFR or just raiding, you do a little of everything to progress fastest.

    What's frustrating me so much is there's a collective attempt to argue dailies are the worst design ever, but even within the "dailies suck" movement, there are arguments that cancel each other out, so there's not even a unified position on what should change and why short of "I don't wanna" which has traditionally been a statement raiders replied to with "STFU noob scrub, lrn2play or quit. You don't raid so you shouldn't get anything."
    Last edited by Faroth; 2012-11-21 at 06:22 PM.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  7. #27
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moriturri View Post

    However here's the truth from MY perspective: I want to raid. In Cata, raiding at the level I wanted to involved leveling to 85, gearing through heroic dungeons (which also granted rep in the factions I needed (therazane, plus helm chant)), then providing enough flasks and pots for the week (as well as gold for repairs). Now in order to raid at the same level I have to do all this plus dailies.....
    MEEEEP! WRONG! In order to raid at the SAME level you can do it in the gear from Heroic 5 mans. Same as always.

    There are players who have proven that they don't need rep to succeed in raiding. Normal modes were cleared before they could even gather 1250 valor points for one single upgrade. Hardmodes were cleared before they could even gather enough VP for a neck and ring for example. Normal modes drop ALREADY items equivalent and better to VP items. normal modes are tuned to be done in ilv 463 gear from heroics.

    If you "need" dailies to be able to clear normal modes - what does that tell us? That you really need gear THAT much as a crutch?
    Last edited by det; 2012-11-21 at 06:16 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  8. #28
    Just get rid of bonus rolls and rep gear.

  9. #29
    They aren't needed, especially if you aren't even doing anything but normals.

    Why so many people trip over their own feet to do them every week is beyond me.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    MEEEEP! WRONG! In order to raid at the SAME level you can do it in the gear from Heroic 5 mans. Same as always.

    There are players who have proven that they don't need rep to succeed in raiding. Normal modes were cleared before they could even gather 1250 valor points for one single upgrade. Hardmodes were cleared before they could even gather enough VP for a neck and ring for example. Normal modes drop ALREADY items equivalent and better to VP items. normal modes are tuned to be done in ilv 463 gear from heroics.

    If you "need" dailies to be able to clear normal modes - what does that tell us? That you really need gear THAT much as a crutch?
    Man...I'm glad that you know me so much better than myself so that you can say that my opinion on my perspective is wrong...Now for the argument that will never allow either of us to be satisfied, or turn the other to the other's opinion:

    You are incorrect about Normal modes being cleared before 1250 valour was able to be collected, 1000/week, raids opened on the second week, therefore the cap was 2k. Which therefore means that week 3 (when hardmodes were unlocked) was 3k valour, more than enough for both a ring and a neck. That point is pretty irrelevant, however I thought I would point it out for you so you could avoid typing out the same incorrect statement in the future.

    You are correct, normal modes do drop items "equivalent to and better to VP items" (sic). However I quoted that for a reason, MV does not drop a Spirit/Haste neck piece for example, meaning that after itemization is taken into account, the Klaxxi rep item is BiS for some specs. In fact, past MV to HoF and ToES, the difference in iLvL does not make up the difference in itemization for some classes, so again, BiS.

    Personally I don't "need dailies..as a crutch" to clearing normal modes, I have cleared normal modes, and I have cleared some heroics as well. Am I top 100 guild raider? No (as I've stated previously in this thread). (Not to mention, if the rep items are, as you say, the equivalent to MV, then how would it be a crutch to use items that are equivalent to what I can already get? Great job contradicting yourself there...)
    Additionally, I don't think it's fair to say that Normal modes are tuned to be done in 463iLvL. Even the "top guilds" didn't initially clear the raid in that low of gear (they were in heroic gear plus rep epics, boe epics, and the occasional black market AH item), and given the Blizzard has stated time and again that they are often surprised that they are able to clear content at the gear level they do, I would think it's fair to say that content is effectively tuned to a iLvL than what they defeat it in.

    Now, as to your initial point: PvE from my perspective (please, actually pay attention to the fact that this is from my perspective this time, instead of categorically dismissing the point because it doesn't match up with your, different, perspective) is about "competition" in terms of maintaining your position as compared to other guilds, that means that if other guilds which have historically been of approximately the same progression level as my guild, are using "advantages" such as coins/rep/etc. to clear the content, in order to stay at the "same level" we are required to take the same steps. If you think this is a flawed line of reasoning, that's your prerogative (of course), however it's the same line of reasoning that was used to justify the T13 LFR exploits.

    @Faroth: Personally I agree with you that people need to stop complaining that dailies are the worst design ever. The only thing I want changed from them is powerful rewards (read: gear which raiders desire to assist in progression), removed from the vendors. During the time I've had to actually play the quests through at a leisurely pace, I actually enjoyed them as much as any quests I've done (I just don't often have this "extra time" to not rush through them).
    Last edited by Moriturri; 2012-11-21 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Clarity

  11. #31
    Mechagnome Yells's Avatar
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    I have something like 10 or 11 stacks of coins and I'm exalted with everything but Nat Pagel. I dont mind the dailies. I am going to start with Golden Lotus again after raid tonight because I want skyshards and if I'm going to be killing mogu I might as well get vp coins and extra gold for it.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...iippy/advanced
    I'd prefer my orcs to stand up straight.

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