1. #1

    Garalon 25m advice

    Greetings,

    I'm currently tanking garalon and we're about to go into our 2nd night and i was curious about some feedback. So, we currently have a fire mage start the pull and it's followed by a warlock, 2 hunters then i believe it's a couple other ranged. My apologies for not knowing the exact kiting roster. Would you guys think it would be a good idea for the tank to start the phermone kite path? If so, should one of the melee step up and help soak the fury strike with the 2nd tank? We tried it once on 10m and the first fury swipe after i pulled back to the edge of the room I was out of range and he got a stack of the fury buff. To extend on that, how detrimental is him getting a stack of that fury buff? I've been wanting to put on my DPS gear but i feel that it's subpar even if i would stay in my prot spec.

    Since I am tanking, I don't get to see alot of what the melee are doing. For the two back legs, which I know are important, how does the weakened debuff work? Do melee target the legs and cleave garalon or do they target garalon and cleave the legs, while standing in the blue circles? Going forward, how do you guys handle the front legs? I've heard some groups leave one of the front legs alone for the tanks to cleave, how quickly should the tanks be getting their leg down if that is the optimal way to go about things? Also, should the ranged ever hard switch off garalon to dps one of the front legs? There's been a couple of Ranged DPS who are very mobile, for example our ele shammy who is asking if he can stay in the blue circles with the melee and help DPS the back legs, would you guys recommend that?

    I'm not a WoL expert so deciphering through DPS(e), active time and actual dmg on garalon is a little confusing for me. Should the melee ever move up to the front legs, at the cost of active time? For melee what should the breakdown of DPS on Garalon's legs and Garalon be? Am i wrong in thinking that looking at overall DPS is an askewed way to look at it and you should be looking at leg DPS and Boss DPS separately? I do understand that DPS'ing the legs is essentially DPS'ing garalon though.

    As far as the kiting goes, our RL is rotating a melee or two into it, is that wrong? I feel that it is. Shouldn't the ranged DPS and healers with maybe even myself and other tank be enough? We've had our kiters move in at 13 stacks but are probably taking it closer to 15-16 stacks. From the healing perspective would you guys prefer to heal through more crushes and less aoe or more aoe and less crushes? Also, since the tanks are not taking a large amount of damage how have healers been using their CDs?

    Out our healer comp who would you think would be the optimal healers to heal and kite?

    1 disc priest
    1 holy priest
    2 resto druids
    1 resto shammy
    1 MW monk

    Admittedly I know i can optimize myself to pump out a lil bit more DPS and I know that was our first night and the RL did stress to put kiting and movement ahead of DPS but I think there are issues we can optimize.

    There were a few more issues but I think i filled this post up with enough for now. Hopefully i was clear enough with concerns.

    Unfortunately having recently registered to MMO i am unable to post logs at this time.

  2. #2
    Search shiinjiwow on YouTube csnt post a link yet... sorry for the crap editing lol but we have the tanks doing the puddles a healer and a range. Anyone who can cleave multi dot is killing legs. So out of the 4 legs me (melee) only go for 3 legs while range gets the front left leg. Sorry for the bad explanation I'm working and posting on a iPhone -_-

  3. #3
    Ok well we 2 tanked 6 healed just like you

    -Our tanks started the phermones, first tank picked it up and stood still with a cd, so like 3 puddles spawned under him in 1 spot and then he was able to sprint to the edge with only one puddle not on the outside which is not a big deal. You definitely want all dps going crazy off the start. We killed all 4 legs then lusted.

    -We went tank -tank - healersx5 - hunter- hunter(Can get by with 8 kiters, but if anyone trade early it will be close to the debuff not falling off, so 9 is safe) for kiting. We were switching off at between 15-20 stacks and made sure to call out for cds just before each crash(Yes things like barrier/SLT will only hit the main group, but thats enough to help). Had a defensive and healing cd go out every time, theres about 35 secs between each crash like this so need a 6 cd rotation. We left our MW monk out of the rotation since his aoe heals are insane and were needed to keep the raid alive. Will say first healer to pick it up from a tank has to wait for the cone, then run in and grab it and run back out quickly.

    - Also need to make sure a healer probably a druid is in range when your dps is kiting. When your heals are kiting they only really have themselves and the tanks to worry about.

    -You definitely dont want melee kiting, thats a complete waste of dps. The more healers you have kiting the easier the enrage will be to beat. Like i said 5 and leave your best aoe healer on the raid full time. Hunters were our choice since there pets were on him full time and they could still do some dps.

    - We use a cleave group of 3(rogues and warriors are best, your ele would work, but is not the best option) can maybe go with 4 if the 1st leg is still sitting really high when a 2nd spawns, but still only want the best cleave class's on it. They stay in the blue circle and dps the leg cleaving to the boss. When theres only 1 leg up only that group is on it, everyone else minus tanks/kiters is somewhere stacked as best as possbile for aoe healing and just dps the boss. When a 2nd leg spawns, ranged help finish the first leg.(they do not need to run to the circle unless its right beside them) Then the cleave groups moves to the new leg.

    -They do need to be careful though occasionally there out of range for awhile, so if they get low its there responsibility to get back to the raid for heals for a sec.
    Last edited by Mckaguer; 2012-11-20 at 05:08 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mckaguer View Post
    - We use a cleave group of 3(rogues and warriors are best, your ele would work, but is not the best option) can maybe go with 4 if the 1st leg is still sitting really high when a 2nd spawns, but still only want the best cleave class's on it. They stay in the blue circle and dps the leg cleaving to the boss. When theres only 1 leg up only that group is on it, everyone else minus tanks/kiters is somewhere stacked as best as possbile for aoe healing and just dps the boss. When a 2nd leg spawns, ranged help finish the first leg.(they do not need to run to the circle unless its right beside them) Then the cleave groups moves to the new leg.

    -They do need to be careful though occasionally there out of range for awhile, so if they get low its there responsibility to get back to the raid for heals for a sec.
    Thankyou for the response. What you're saying there is that it's inefficient to have all the melee on the legs? Again, i wish i can post my logs but I believe our DKs were topping the meters. So the weakened debuff only affects cleave dmg or is it aoe dmg? I'm little confused on the wording here now that I think about it. basically what i'm asking is a dk spread his diseases to each leg, does that count as cleaving? I know it sounds dumb to ask b/c i feel the answer is no but again i rather have confirmation from you smarties out there.

    Also could you go over your initial pull with the tank taking phermones first? Where was the OT in relation to where the MT was? As the tank reached the edge of the room was he able to still soak every furious swipe?
    Last edited by Armwack; 2012-11-20 at 05:28 PM.

  5. #5
    Unfortunately Shiinji, as you are a 10 man guild, your advice is not overly helpful, as ~8 people are required to pass the debuff.

    Yes, the tanks should begin the pheromones debuff, as the boss is at it's full speed on pull, it's QUITE difficult for a dps to kite the debuff at a reasonably slow pace and stay out of the frontal cone. Our first kill (we've had others since then, but they all use "approximately" the same setup), used BloodDK-ProtPally-HolyPriest-RestoDruid-SPriest-Warlock-Warlock-Hunter-(hunter backup if we needed to pass another time, but didn't need to on our kill, nor should u assuming ~15-20stacks each). Then back to the tanks. The goal with this setup was by the time we were done with the tanks, the boss would have 1-2 legs at any given time, meaning lots of time for the others to stack puddles close together. Then we're back to the tanks and healers by the time you start to get to "crunch" time in terms of execution phases, so there should be maximum DPS uptime. Make sure you dps picking up the debuff get a cd so they don't die from crush/standing in puddle while stunned. Hand of Protection is a great one, as crush is physical, so they wont' take any of the damage from it. Also, near the end of the fight (last 30s) healers need to just heal through the damage of the high Debuff, so you don't take anymore stuns during the "tight enrage". We also rotated cds for each crush, warrior banners are great, Tranqs should actually be used just before the pass, so ppl are topped off for the crush (you have lots of time to top ppl off while the debuff is low after the crush). Don't forget about DPS healing CDS (vamp embrace, etc.).

    As for DPS: Melee should attack the legs and cleave the boss, and should be paying attention to make sure their cleaves are hitting (positioning can actually be pretty difficult for this). The one front leg was all range (as it tended to drag in the puddles, and was hard for melee to get to without standing in bad, or getting under the boss). All dot classes should multidot but focus the boss with their fillers/etc. We had melee chase legs for the buff, but range just stack in the middle to make healing easier. It wasn't really that big of a dps loss for range, as moving from circle to circle tended to eat up enough active time to counter the debuff benefit. When a leg dies, all the damage done to it transfers to the boss, however if it doesn't die, it's a dps loss, therefore near the enrage timer/low boss health, finish killing the leg you are on, and focus all dps on the boss.

    As for your healing, generally you want to take as few crushes as possible, however anything over 20 stacks is pretty much kiling your healers, we shot for 15stacks, but timed our swaps to just after a furious swipe so we didn't have to worry about a crush/furious swipe kiling a tank, if you wait for a swipe: pass the debuff, there are around 2-3 seconds there to toss a big heal on each tank, if you go "pass the debuff: crush, furious swipe" the swipe can come as everyone is stunned. This delay quite frequently meant we were up around 16-17 when we actually did pass it. We also had a resto druid standing outside of the stack to make sure there were hots rolling on the debuff kiter (obviously if a healer was outside, this wasn't a concern, as they could heal themselves). For CD rotations for crush we did something close to ignore the first 2, then Divine hymn (or barrier, can't remember what or Priest was for this kill), Tranq, Monk Raidwide-Layonhands thing, DPS Healing CDs, DPS Tranqs, War's banner and Rallying Cry, Shaman Totems, War 2's Banner and Rallying Cry, and back to Divine Hymn. We were also rotating Devo. Auras basically on CD (they effect the damage from the debuff, not the crush, so were using them around 12ish stacks, as I said basically on CD, use em early and often )

    Finally: Melee DPS should not kite the debuff, yes it's a dps loss for everyone, but other than the occasional heroic throw/storm bolt/death coil/etc. melee dps don't really get to do anything out there, at least dot classes can still dot between stutter steps. If you have healers you can trust to kite well (and the other healers can handle them being outside where they can hit only the tanks and themselves usually), using them as much as possible is best. It's a bit of a "mana regen" period for them as they aren't aoe healing, and means maximum DPS up time on what is "a dps race" fight. I think this is actually the one kill we don't have a video of, but I can link you our first kill's logs if you would like.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-20 at 11:29 AM ----------

    The cleave damage used to double dip, so if you were dps'ing the leg with bladeflurry for instance, the damage you caused to the boss was also effected by the weak point debuff. That's been changed, so now only the leg whose circle you are standing in, takes increased damage. Dots auto-update, so if you dot the leg, the run in, you will get the bonus damage, if you dot the leg while in, and then run out, you will not get the bonus damage, however DKs do quite well on this fight because they can have diseases on multiple targets (multidot), plus one of their main abilities (assuming frost dks...) always cleaves, however they shouldn't be doing as well as rogues if your rogues are doing the fight right (right spec, etc.)

  6. #6
    As for your healing, generally you want to take as few crushes as possible, however anything over 20 stacks is pretty much kiling your healers, we shot for 15stacks, but timed our swaps to just after a furious swipe so we didn't have to worry about a crush/furious swipe kiling a tank, if you wait for a swipe: pass the debuff, there are around 2-3 seconds there to toss a big heal on each tank, if you go "pass the debuff: crush, furious swipe" the swipe can come as everyone is stunned. This delay quite frequently meant we were up around 16-17 when we actually did pass it. We also had a resto druid standing outside of the stack to make sure there were hots rolling on the debuff kiter (obviously if a healer was outside, this wasn't a concern, as they could heal themselves). For CD rotations for crush we did something close to ignore the first 2, then Divine hymn (or barrier, can't remember what or Priest was for this kill), Tranq, Monk Raidwide-Layonhands thing, DPS Healing CDs, DPS Tranqs, War's banner and Rallying Cry, Shaman Totems, War 2's Banner and Rallying Cry, and back to Divine Hymn. We were also rotating Devo. Auras basically on CD (they effect the damage from the debuff, not the crush, so were using them around 12ish stacks, as I said basically on CD, use em early and often )
    I think that's an amazing rotation, i'm going to relay that to our healing officer and piece together what CDs we have. All i have to do is remind our other warrior that he has more than 1 banner. -.-

  7. #7
    We killed it yesterday for the first time 2 tank/6 healed it. Bloodlust at the start and having a resto druid start with kiting so all the dps can go all out. After that we have 7 ranged dps and the resto druid kiting. Melee kiting is just a waste of dps. I belief we had 6 or 7 melee on 3 of the legs. As tank I stand in the weak spot of the front left leg (we kite counter clockwise) targeting the boss and having diseases on the leg and some heartstrike cleaving going on. Weak spot effects all damage against that leg afaik. Should try to boost your dps as tank since staying alive is not an issue, runeforge, dps trinket, DRW on cd strength pots etc.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbad View Post
    We killed it yesterday for the first time 2 tank/6 healed it. Bloodlust at the start and having a resto druid start with kiting so all the dps can go all out. After that we have 7 ranged dps and the resto druid kiting. Melee kiting is just a waste of dps. I belief we had 6 or 7 melee on 3 of the legs. As tank I stand in the weak spot of the front left leg (we kite counter clockwise) targeting the boss and having diseases on the leg and some heartstrike cleaving going on. Weak spot effects all damage against that leg afaik. Should try to boost your dps as tank since staying alive is not an issue, runeforge, dps trinket, DRW on cd strength pots etc.
    There were times where it seemed my cleave wasn't hitting the leg while in the blue circles also, i noticed sometimes if i was on the inside edge of where the furious swipe graphic was it didn't seem to register. Did you happen to notice that as well?

  9. #9
    Never had a problem furious swipe always hit me when I was at the edge of the weak spot circle. I assume my cleave always hit didn't pay that much attention to it.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbad View Post
    Never had a problem furious swipe always hit me when I was at the edge of the weak spot circle. I assume my cleave always hit didn't pay that much attention to it.
    it was probably my positioning or the other tanks. Although come to think of it. Is there any immunity that would negate the swipe soak? Anyway I'm going to relay alll this to the big guy in charge and he can extract what the wants to do to fit our raiding capabilities. Thankyou MMO-Champ community. I'll be back for wind lord. lol

  11. #11
    I would imagine physical immunities may prevent the swipe from registering (i.e. divine shield, HoP) but nothing else should, and as it's physical, your AMS (if that's what you were thinking) wouldn't even apply.
    And yes, Warriors aren't used to having that banner yet.
    Also, I forgot to mention this as well, but on a slightly off topic note, now that lock rocks have 3 charges and cd in battle, I would strongly suggest promoting their use as much as possible. A fight like this they can be a pretty big savior to a lot of people. You can actually even plan their pairing with other things (like the monk heal for instance, or after the crush on the tranq ones).


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