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  1. #21
    well we had 7 dds 3 heals and had 3 heals and 1 of the arms warris in front of the bawse take the pheros. just managed him to beat him while in his enrage jump. 2 sucky dpsers and the 2 tanks in dd specc also didnt have much. but the raiders of ours got 100-110k
    I have forgotten more than you will ever know..

  2. #22
    We used three healers, but I guess you can get away with two since one is a monk. Our three healers pull anywhere between 45-55k hps each. I don't think it's possible to maintain 75k hps between two healers for a full seven minutes until you're in full bis gear...

    Anyway, one of the easiest ways to reduce damage is to throw an extra person into the rotation and reduce the stacks you're getting to. You get more frequent crushes, but that's a moderate amount of burst damage you're trading for a ton of extra damage from the higher pheromone stacks. We have the two tanks, two of our healers, and a hunter in our rotation, switching at fifteen stacks.

    We didn't really have any major issues with the enrage (except the first few pulls when we were still trying to figure out what to do with the legs), but we are fortunate enough to have a mage and rogue in our comp (fire mage dot cleave and combat rogue make the dps requirement a non-issue, even after they fixed the double dipping damage). It's still the tightest dps requirement in the entire raid instance in 10m, though.

    For the kiting itself...we have the tank without pheromones as close to the boss as he can be. The one with pheromones stands back at max range for the cone attack. They only cross paths when neither has the debuff, or when they're switching off.

    Also ignore whoever said your pally needs to push more hps. Monks really are that op, and are especially so on this fight. With the amount of gear I assume you guys have with your limited progression, the ~47k hps your pally is pulling sounds about right. To be honest, I'm amazed that you've been able to get past six minutes with just two healers.

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Tell people to stop doing shit dps, or be replaced otherwise. Just compare to our kill for example: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4p...?s=4454&e=4836

    Most of our players are double the dps in your group.
    Got questions about Fire mages or want your logs analyzed? Feel free to PM me.

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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by atrophis View Post
    Def stance by itself DOESNT make you uncritable,unless im horribly misinforfed:P
    You actually don't need Defensive Stance at all as long as you're Protection, due to Unwavering Sentinel. Defensive stance just decreases the damage you take and lets you generate Rage with Revenge and Shield Slam and so on.

    For Death Knights, however, you do need to be in Blood Presence due to Improved Blood Presence.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Well it's definitely a necessary amount of DPS. I wouldn't be surprised if Garalon's enrage was nerfed again, but wouldn't count on it. We pushed almost 800k and barely beat the enrage at 6:50.

    I'm tempted to say it's overtuned for 10 man raids. It's definitely one of the fights that 10 man guilds will struggle with due to loot disparity.

    Feel like the Warriors really need to pick it up though, it's one of the few fights where Warriors are amazing. Raging Wind Glyph, Dragon Roar, and Bloodbath are great for Multi-target damage. I am also not sure how things are on the arms side of things, but the last time I heard, Bloodbath was the lv 90 talent you wanted as a DPS War, regardless of spec.
    You must be mistaken. On normal its 520k raid dps. HP / 420 seconds.

  6. #26
    As a warrior I took a quick look at why they were so low, and oh boy! So the only reason you should ever be arms in this tier is if you can constantly abuse sweeping strikes.

    If you compare my last parse for this boss :http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1293&e=1672, with
    Isra(who was the better of the two in this regard, by a massive margin) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6...pes&boss=63667

    The amount of sweeping strikes hits over 20 attempts was a total of 551(the other guy had under 400), while I had 261 in a single attempt. Obviously its incredibly hard to say without actually seeing these people play, but I don't think they are in the right positions.

    As an arms warr when attacking the legs, you need to be BETWEEN the body and the leg to properly proc the sweeping strikes on the boss. This is a little tricky at times as you are alot closer to the purple circle then what most others can be, but it is a necessity. To put it even more simply, they should have their backs to the boss when hitting the legs.

    If both warrs follow this properly, they should both be able to dish out well over 100k.

  7. #27
    you don't have the dps for this encounter. Everyone in your raid should be around 100k for this fight with the damage buff. also warlocks just straight cannot be your tank kiters and pull the dps they need to do.

  8. #28
    I didnt take a look at any of the logs, but if enrage timer is an issue, having tanks equip dps trinkets helps quite a lot. My dps went up from ~~40k to ~~45k as a prot warrior by using dps trinkets (with ilvl 463 weapon)

    Keep in mind the raid dmg is higher the more stacks they got, so swapping at 15 stacks might be an idea.

    raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/stormscale/hyuru/#Garalon-10N-1003
    Last edited by Hyuru; 2012-11-21 at 01:38 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphias View Post
    You actually don't need Defensive Stance at all as long as you're Protection, due to Unwavering Sentinel. Defensive stance just decreases the damage you take and lets you generate Rage with Revenge and Shield Slam and so on.

    For Death Knights, however, you do need to be in Blood Presence due to Improved Blood Presence.
    Continuing with those responses, special attacks from npcs can't crit (only melee swings).

    (that's why you can get away with a plate dps doing it)

  10. #30
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    You must be mistaken. On normal its 520k raid dps. HP / 420 seconds.
    Yes, without taking leg break damage into account, 520k is probably a fair figure, if not just barely riding the edge of a wipe.

    I just looked at the WoL report and assumed that we were actually doing that much damage. Still though, going to have to break some legs.
    http://www.heroicstrike.org/ - Goodnight, sweet prince

    Melee isn't awful for Challenge Modes; you are. Melee players are a liability for the windows of time in which a tank keeps an enemy mob faced towards them, resulting in an exorbitant loss of damage or death. Melee players are a liability for people who keep rooting mobs next to them. Melee are a liability to a healer that cannot heal.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Yes, without taking leg break damage into account, 520k is probably a fair figure, if not just barely riding the edge of a wipe.

    I just looked at the WoL report and assumed that we were actually doing that much damage. Still though, going to have to break some legs.
    The leg HP is more or less equal to the amount of damage it does to the boss. That's why attacking a leg outside the weakened zone is a raid DPS loss.

    HP/enrage time is still accurate for this boss.

  12. #32
    The mechanics of the fight are pretty simple, melee cannot get hit by swipes ofc.. thats kinda bad actually.

    We just make the boss follow the edge, we rotate the 2 tanks and 2 healers for the pheromones, although its kinda more touchy for the tanks, as you have to be far enough so that you dont pass pheromones to the other tank, but close enough to get hit by swipe, although if you miss a swipe or two, its not a big deal, but it definitely doesnt help

    Dps will be your issue, and you seem to be pretty low. Make sure your warriors are sweep striking. Melee are king on this fight as they are the only ones really able to benefit fully from the weakened area debuff. So unless too many legs are up, ranged should stick to the body while melee get the full bonus of the debuff.

  13. #33
    Everyone's DPS is incredibly low. You won't kill this boss even if you can live for 7m. Two of your healers are also super low. Monks are not that OP, especially for normal modes. Our Disc and rDrood pull fairly similar HPS as our Monk while they all do ~20k DPS each.

    As far as the mechanics:
    • Melee should never get hit by the cleave. That's just being bad.
    • Swap at 15-20 stacks.
    • Use cooldowns (Raid/Personal/Healthstones) and top people off before each Crush. Crush should not be a surprise; kiters should be communicating.
    • Many of your raiders have high Pheromone Trail damage. This is bad. Don't stand in poop. Kiters should be moving as a Crush is coming so they don't sit in a Trail for the entire stun (this flat-out kills you on Heroic, btw).

    Optimizing damage:
    • Ranged should just stay on the boss and not touch legs.
    • You have a lot of melee, so give leg priority to your top 2 cleavers (your Warriors). There should always be a leg up for them to cleave off or you're not performing optimally. Seriously, non-cleavers should completely forget about legs.
    • Anyone who touches a leg needs to be inside the weakened zone. Hitting a leg from outside is a raid DPS loss.
    • Kite off the wall a bit so it's easier for melee to hit outside legs. Room should not be an issue.
    • Prepot and Hero/CD pot. Almost no one in your raid is.
    • Most of your DPSers just need to learn to play. Their damage is completely terrible.

    Cheese (optional):
    • Have your tanks go DPS and have your ret and your hPally eat cleaves.
    • Your rDrood can DPS a lot more. HotW during Heroism is some sick burst. DoTing and throwing some Wraths outside HotW is entirely possible too. Just don't go OOM.

  14. #34
    The biggest problem I can see(coming from one of the members in the raid - it may be harder to find in the logs) is the fact that there were people who caused Crushes.An unexpected Crush can mess up everything , the kiter might die in a pool while raid is stunned, healers will have to struggle to bring everyone back up wasting their mana, the dps decreases because of the extra stun time and so on, Crush from other than switching pheromone should never ever happen if we wish to kill it! There were also other silly mistakes like only 1 tank getting the Furious swipe and boss gaining Fury or the dps getting hit by Furious swipe, people staying in pheromone trail.. it all adds up. DPS can be improved once you get no more mistakes, but when you see a Crush 7-10 seconds after the previous one from the pheromone change with casualties or raid barely surviving it doesn't make you want to push more dps if the fight is clearly not under control.
    Last edited by burgertank; 2012-11-22 at 01:55 PM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    you don't have the dps for this encounter. Everyone in your raid should be around 100k for this fight with the damage buff. also warlocks just straight cannot be your tank kiters and pull the dps they need to do.
    Wow, exageration overload! We havent had a kill where our entire raid has been over 100k so that just completely wrong. While i agree the OPs dps isnt good enough for the kill, asking for 100k is ridiculous.

    The way we figured it, with 3 healers you want each DPS to be hitting 85-85k. Some can be a little lower as long as the others are a little higher but rule of thumb is 85k.


  16. #36
    Not all the DPS can be hitting 100k on this fight. If you need to choose between melee or ranged hitting the legs, leave it to melee and have the ranged shoot Garalon's body with impunity.

    My guild recently killed Garalon by including healers into the kiting rotation, swapping pheromones at 20 stacks. Fire mages have an easier time kiting Garalon and maintaining their damage; my own personal damage (warlock) was eviscerated each time I was on pheromone duty.
    Last edited by Keldion; 2012-11-22 at 05:05 PM.
    Warlock DOT Haste Spreadsheet 5.4 - Level 90

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    Tell people to stop doing shit dps, or be replaced otherwise. Just compare to our kill for example:
    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4ptpgwd188b2looa/analyze/dd/source/?s=4454&e=4836

    Most of our players are double the dps in your group.
    You should be ashamed for using this thread to brag about yourself. Not very helpful.

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