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  1. #1

    Dual wield dancing steel?

    I know dancing steel is the end all be all, albeit expensive. Does it stack with itself when dual wielded?

    Right now I'm main handing Dancing Steel and offhanding Windsong.

    I seem to get 50% uptime on Dancing steel and 19%/15%/12% on average from the offhand of Windsong. (for each proc type although they can overlap) based on the boss data for my last LFR run with World of Logs

  2. #2
    Actually wondering the same thing. I know agility trumps every thing, but the secondary stats are nice. Really not seeing much information on this.
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  3. #3
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    A quick search on wowhead told me it can dual proc. Also read some blue post it will work the same way as Windsong.

    I have no doubt this is the case, but I'm not 100% sure.

  4. #4
    Going through my logs, I never see a double buff of Dancing Steel. I do see periods of long duration buff up-time though. Having both of them being Dancing Steel could give it a better chance to proc, as I believe it's a 2PPM.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Further research shows it definitely can proc twice when dual-wielding.

    Also considering it procs 30-60 times during a 7 minute fight for some people.
    Source: http://cl.ly/KwWQ

    I would be surprised otherwise, too.

  6. #6
    The Patient
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    Dancing Steel is being changed to ppm next patch. I forget where I read this(I'll try to find it) but the source said that Windsong for offhand would be the winner.

  7. #7
    to my knowledge you can have both active at once but useing two just provides a larger uptime of the buff during the fight agl is still two v one any stat pusing it into the lead

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragethorn View Post
    Dancing Steel is being changed to ppm next patch. I forget where I read this(I'll try to find it) but the source said that Windsong for offhand would be the winner.
    As quoted by Daxxarri: "In 5.1, we’re migrating four additional procs over to the Real PPM system. Dancing Steel and Jade Spirit are 2 Real PPM, River's Song is 4 Real PPM, and Colossus is 6 Real PPM."

  9. #9
    Looks like someone tested it out:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19165981

    TLDR; seems dual Dancing Steel is a waste.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Kyuubi87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zene View Post
    Looks like someone tested it out:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19165981

    TLDR; seems dual Dancing Steel is a waste.
    The test was for a Brewmaster. OP could be a Windwalker and so far from threads and logs provided I've seen people reporting that Dancing Steel x2 appear to be a good choice for DPS as the uptime is nice.

  11. #11
    Double steel is amazing atm but in 5.1 it's getting nerfed and everyone will probably be using Windsong on the OH.

  12. #12
    PPM works well for classes that have alot of instant attack, which fortunately Brewmasters are one of them. However, do note that most Brewmaster instant attacks are based off mainhand procs only. This can be evidently seen when you swap Colossus and Windsong between MH and OH. To that currently Dancing Steel will be the BiS enchant until 5.1 where RPPM kicks in. RPPM is not affected by instant attacks and will only proc based solely on weapon swings. In that case most probably Dancing Steel + Windsong will catch up.

  13. #13
    PPM works well for classes that have alot of instant attack, which fortunately Brewmasters are one of them. However, do note that most Brewmaster instant attacks are based off mainhand procs only. This can be evidently seen when you swap Colossus and Windsong between MH and OH. To that currently Dancing Steel will be the BiS enchant until 5.1 where RPPM kicks in. RPPM is not affected by instant attacks and will only proc based solely on weapon swings. In that case most probably Dancing Steel + Windsong will catch up.
    Its not PPM its Real PPM. Its basically designed specifically to provide no extra benefit to any particular playstyel.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Thisisanalt View Post
    Double steel is amazing atm but in 5.1 it's getting nerfed and everyone will probably be using Windsong on the OH.
    Can you provide any support for your claim that this change will be a nerf to dancing steel on the offhand?

    My understanding is that currently the mainhand enchant procs more than the offhand, and this will equalize it, making an offhand dancing steel stronger than it is currently.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    Its not PPM its Real PPM. Its basically designed specifically to provide no extra benefit to any particular playstyel.
    I think you don't quite get what I'm saying. RPPM (Real PPM) is a proc system which is unaffected by instant attacks, and the proc chance is based solely on weapon swing speed/cast time. PPM on the other hand has a static proc chance set in relative with swing speed/cast time. But doesn't account for instant attacks. Hence the more instant attacks you perform a 2 PPM proc will always proc more than a 2 RPPM. It was clearly explained by Blizzard themself, well the RPPM part that is and PPM was already in game long time ago which was alraedy evident itself.

    Understand this, Windsong was once also under PPM proc which was changed to RPPM due to constant refreshing of the 3 buffs. For a cheap enchant it was performing quite spectacular. Now it comes to Dancing Steel who remains as PPM still but Blizzard didn't make changes due to the it being not accessible by most people. However, come 5.1 epics will probably overflow and subsequently make Dancing Steel the new Windsong. If that were the case, no one would ever consider using Windsong.

    If both Windsong and Dancing Steel were based off a RPPM system, then it is a weighing of you'd want more secondary stats or more agi/str. Which I would say for some classes it ain't all that bad to have 5,000 secondary stats up as compared to 1,650 main stat just like how some people are gemming secondary stat now instead of primary stat.

    Also they are not just nerfing Dancing Steel on OH. It is pretty much a flat out nerf if it were to go on live. But we can always hope on the "we are thinking about" that it will not happen.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zene View Post
    Looks like someone tested it out:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19165981

    TLDR; seems dual Dancing Steel is a waste.
    You must have missed the fact that he only tested it once.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxJeng View Post
    Hence the more instant attacks you perform a 2 PPM proc will always proc more than a 2 RPPM. It was clearly explained by Blizzard themself, well the RPPM part that is and PPM was already in game long time ago which was alraedy evident itself.
    Bear in mind tho, when they switch a proc from PPM to RPPM, they also change the number of PPM to account for it. Every proc that got changed to RPPM changed increased the number to account for the change.

    Not saying it isn't a nerf, but it is something to consider in judging them.

  18. #18
    Dreadlord the0o's Avatar
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    I am so very lost

    PPM?

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  19. #19
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the0o View Post
    I am so very lost

    PPM?
    Proc's Per Minute. Basically each enchant is designed to proc X times over 60 seconds which will mostly normalize the uptime of each. The question comes down to is X PPM * X Stat > Y PPM * Y Stat.

    As mentioned none of the info from the other thread linked proves either combo is superior/inferior. Also, you wont see 2x entries in WoL for dancing steel since the combat log can't tell the difference between an main vs off hand proc. The reason you see 3 Windsong entries is because it separates the entries for Hast/Crit/Mastery.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgruntler View Post
    Bear in mind tho, when they switch a proc from PPM to RPPM, they also change the number of PPM to account for it. Every proc that got changed to RPPM changed increased the number to account for the change.

    Not saying it isn't a nerf, but it is something to consider in judging them.

    If I'm not mistaken it is taking the course of being 2 RPPM. Which will no doubt be less efficient than the current live state. Bumping up to 2.5-3.5 RPPM range would match up it's current proc state.

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