1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    No Rogue PvE guides?

    Hey.

    Leveling my Rogue currently(He's 85), and came to check what I "should" be doing for the basic priority. However, I can't find any MoP Rogue guides, I'm leveling as Assasination currently and it feels great. I checked EJ, and they were just a pile of garbage, nothing is finished :/.

    Just need to know:
    -stat prios
    -rotation priorities
    -opening
    -math/explanation on talents

    I was trying the same way I did for Cata, which was to start with Garrote and then SnD followed by Mut and Envenom and then getting 4/5 CP Rupture and continuing, but I read the tooltip and it said that Garrote wouldn't give Energy back anymore if Rupture is on the target already.

    Is the Cata starting rotation still viable, or do I start with Ambush instead?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Icy-Vein's guide seems more or less accurate. Every guide people have tried to write and post here has been terrible.

    Very quick answers:

    Stats:
    Agi > Hit (7.5%) > Mastery > everything else (fluctuates; use ShadowCraft)

    Rotation:
    Use Mut >35%, Dispatch when procced and <35%. Apply SnD once and keep it up with Env. Keep Rupture rolling always. Always Env at 5 CP.

    Use you cooldowns on cooldown except the last use of the fight. Save your last use of SB and Vendetta for <35% and line them up together.

    Opening:
    Don't use Garrote. Ever. You can open with Ambush or Mut and put up SnD or Rupt first. It makes very little difference (numbers on EJ).

    Talents:
    SF is the best
    Leeching is a very, very slight DPS gain (proc uptime)
    ShS is pretty much always best (just 2-3s of uptime beats Prep)
    Anticipation is best
    Other talents don't matter

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Icy-Vein's guide seems more or less accurate. Every guide people have tried to write and post here has been terrible.

    Very quick answers:

    Stats:
    Agi > Hit (7.5%) > Mastery > everything else (fluctuates; use ShadowCraft)

    Rotation:
    Use Mut >35%, Dispatch when procced and <35%. Apply SnD once and keep it up with Env. Keep Rupture rolling always. Always Env at 5 CP.

    Use you cooldowns on cooldown except the last use of the fight. Save your last use of SB and Vendetta for <35% and line them up together.

    Opening:
    Don't use Garrote. Ever. You can open with Ambush or Mut and put up SnD or Rupt first. It makes very little difference (numbers on EJ).

    Talents:
    SF is the best
    Leeching is a very, very slight DPS gain (proc uptime)
    ShS is pretty much always best (just 2-3s of uptime beats Prep)
    Anticipation is best
    Other talents don't matter
    Thanks for this, I'm currently using Burst of Speed for leveling so I get an unlimited sprint when moving around and I don't want to mount. Leeching is also the best due to self heals while leveling. I don't have access to SB or 90 tier yet, but I was kind of expecting Anticipation to be the best, no CPs wasted

    What's the difference(values, fight specifics?) on Haste vs. Crit, I know Haste increases attack speed and Energy regen and Crit gives a chance to get 1 more CP on Dispatch/Mut

  4. #4
    Mechanically, the difference between crit and haste is as you stated. The EP of both are about equal for me (usually within .01). For leveling I would prefer crit.

    If you're looking for leveling stuff, I liked this setup. It's mostly based on getting around quickly and boosting defense for extra pulls. With the stealth glyph, you can dip in and out of stealth for 100%, free BoS uptime. I got realm first 90 rogue with that build.

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    Oh yeah. I think I used that instead of Glyph of Evasion. Forgot about it; great for leveling.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Mechanically, the difference between crit and haste is as you stated. The EP of both are about equal for me (usually within .01). For leveling I would prefer crit.

    If you're looking for leveling stuff, I liked this setup. It's mostly based on getting around quickly and boosting defense for extra pulls. With the stealth glyph, you can dip in and out of stealth for 100%, free BoS uptime. I got realm first 90 rogue with that build.
    I'm using Prey on the Weak instead of Dirty Tricks(otherwise same build), I usually open up with Cheap Shot followed by Mut(4cp no crit, 5cp crit) and then Envenom, if I already have SnD up, mobs should be at like 30% or lower by the time the stun wears off , I also have the Cheap Shot glyph for 1s extra stun duration instead of Sprint glyph.

    The stealth glyph feels like Mandatory for leveling, you can pull start up on every mob in stealth with the glyph, love it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 09:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    I thought of it, but since I'm leveling as Assasination, SnD will be up all the time anyway. I don't find myself using Recuperate much to warrant the need for the glyph spot, I find the extra duration on Evasion, lower CD on Stealth and Cheap Shot duration to be much more valuable

  8. #8
    I would suggest getting shadow focus as first talent.
    Then opening with a energy free mutilate followed by another mutilate. Now you will have like 4 or 5 CP and use rupture. There will be a 20% chance that you wont proc blindside off of these 2 mutilates. If that is the case, you are unlucky, if not you use the blindside proc after rupture for a 1 or 2 combopoint slice and dice. Now i usually pop both shadow blades and vendetta for mutilate and envenom spam. You should have some energy pooled before you pop cds.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 12:13 PM ----------

    Ambush isnt really a good opener for assa since mutilate damage isnt so low compared and mutilate has a chance to proc blindside which outweights 1 ambush by alot.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    I thought of it, but since I'm leveling as Assasination, SnD will be up all the time anyway. I don't find myself using Recuperate much to warrant the need for the glyph spot, I find the extra duration on Evasion, lower CD on Stealth and Cheap Shot duration to be much more valuable
    Everything changes past 86 though. Currently I'm still using that glyph as one of my main glyphs at level 90.
    You aren't always able to keep up Slice and Dice, whether it's because you can't Envenom because you can't generate enough resources or because mobs die too soon which is my problem. Glyph of Deadly Momentum is great.

    You'll use Recuperate more often past 86 as well.

    I think if you want to follow a guide the one on elitistjerks is your best bet. Granted I didn't look at the Icy-Veins one yet but they always seem to be very accurate and correct as well. I'd consider writing a guide for MMOchampion but... there really isn't a reason to with elitistjerks and probably Icy-Veins around. It would just be one giant copy-paste anyway.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2012-11-21 at 12:01 PM.

  10. #10
    I foudn there was a lot less theorying and guides for Rogues going on in MOP than there ever has been before. Don't know it just not a lot has changed.

    After 86ish you will have to start playing your rogue properly again. Some creatures die really easy, others are a massive pain especially if you get a few of them together. Glyph of deadly momentum I have found fantastic for questing and dailies too. Honestly just keeping attacking the next mob asap before you loose the buffs, and not having to stop to eat etc ever just forces you to play and level much faster too.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    I foudn there was a lot less theorying and guides for Rogues going on in MOP than there ever has been before. Don't know it just not a lot has changed.
    This was my first thought as well, aside from nothing really changing some other things were also improved or removed. There isn't a whole lot left to theorycraft over or to discuss once you know the basics.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Ryme's Avatar
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    Which probably why the most heated discussion I've seen is whether or not Shadow Focus beats out Subterfuge which constitutes a gain so small you'd never know you had it.
    I am the lucid dream
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  13. #13
    Thought i should just post it here instead of making a new thread.

    So i'm rolling combat and my ilvl is 480. I'm a PvE player, but very casual, i don't raid. I was asked to join a raid because they were short on people and my gear was good enough to get me in. Me, not having anything better to do decided to join. So they needed me for Elegon 10m normal.

    I knew how the fight worked and everything and i was assigned to 1 spark and Elegon, they told me that i shouldn't bother with the big add. I did as told and didn't fail on tactics. My problem is that i had dogshit dps compared to my gear. There was a WW monk outdpsing me and his gear is ilvl 361. I follow my rotation just as i've learned, but my dps is still on 60k WITH the 50% dps increase buff. I get to 100k+ with CD's, but after cd's run out i go down to 60k, even 55k in some cases. I don't know what i'm doing wrong and why my dps is so bad. I expect my dps to be 60-70k WITHOUT the 50% dmg buff.

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Exroyal/simple

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Exroyal View Post
    Thought i should just post it here instead of making a new thread.

    So i'm rolling combat and my ilvl is 480. I'm a PvE player, but very casual, i don't raid. I was asked to join a raid because they were short on people and my gear was good enough to get me in. Me, not having anything better to do decided to join. So they needed me for Elegon 10m normal.

    I knew how the fight worked and everything and i was assigned to 1 spark and Elegon, they told me that i shouldn't bother with the big add. I did as told and didn't fail on tactics. My problem is that i had dogshit dps compared to my gear. There was a WW monk outdpsing me and his gear is ilvl 361. I follow my rotation just as i've learned, but my dps is still on 60k WITH the 50% dps increase buff. I get to 100k+ with CD's, but after cd's run out i go down to 60k, even 55k in some cases. I don't know what i'm doing wrong and why my dps is so bad. I expect my dps to be 60-70k WITHOUT the 50% dmg buff.

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Exroyal/simple
    Nothing really wrong with ur char, problem is that combat is poor on single target (i notice over 10k dps difference for me between muti and combat) and is greatly based on gear and main hand weapon(ur mace is not that good), same thing happened in cata with combat being sh*t for t11, good for t12 and op for t13, subtlety is on the same boat too.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Nothing really wrong with ur char, problem is that combat is poor on single target (i notice over 10k dps difference for me between muti and combat) and is greatly based on gear and main hand weapon(ur mace is not that good), same thing happened in cata with combat being sh*t for t11, good for t12 and op for t13, subtlety is on the same boat too.
    Would you recommend going muti for whole t14? I was muti back in t11 and changed to t12, but i guess i should go muti in this tier and swap back to combat next tier?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Exroyal View Post
    Would you recommend going muti for whole t14? I was muti back in t11 and changed to t12, but i guess i should go muti in this tier and swap back to combat next tier?
    Mut for all non-cleave fights. Combat for cleave fights. The difference in their single-target and double-target DPS is substantial.

    Cleave fights:
    Stone Guards
    Garalon
    Wind Lord (maybe)
    Amber-Shaper

    Also, ShadowCraft shows ~2k DPS improvement from gear optimizations (without Dancing Steel; I would only put that on an epic wep). ShadowC is showing ~65k DPS before optimizations, too. That means you should have been around 90k with just the 50% buff. You were probably doing something wrong, but we can't really tell without logs.

    I would just swap to Mut and keep Combat OS for cleave fights. If your DPS is still low, make a thread with some logs. It's really easy to record your own and even an LFR Feng will give us a good idea of your rotation.

  17. #17
    How are you guys doing on opening burst dmg?
    For fight when you nuke all in directly.
    I use vendette/shadowblades but try to not clipping envenom, should i?
    How are your superburstdmgrotation if you start fight with to do as much damage as possible for 40 sec?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrih View Post
    How are you guys doing on opening burst dmg?
    For fight when you nuke all in directly.
    I use vendette/shadowblades but try to not clipping envenom, should i?
    How are your superburstdmgrotation if you start fight with to do as much damage as possible for 40 sec?
    For 40s burst, you just use your cooldowns. Nothing changes.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Mut for all non-cleave fights. Combat for cleave fights. The difference in their single-target and double-target DPS is substantial.

    Cleave fights:
    Stone Guards
    Garalon
    Wind Lord (maybe)
    Amber-Shaper

    Also, ShadowCraft shows ~2k DPS improvement from gear optimizations (without Dancing Steel; I would only put that on an epic wep). ShadowC is showing ~65k DPS before optimizations, too. That means you should have been around 90k with just the 50% buff. You were probably doing something wrong, but we can't really tell without logs.

    I would just swap to Mut and keep Combat OS for cleave fights. If your DPS is still low, make a thread with some logs. It's really easy to record your own and even an LFR Feng will give us a good idea of your rotation.
    I see, but if i am to keep combat as OS i'll have to reforge into muti on most fights and go combat on others which means a lot of reforging and sometimes enchanting, no?

    I'll try Elegon a couple of days again and if things dont go the way i want to then i'll make a thread about it.

  20. #20
    I like Noxxic for quick reference.

    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/rogue/assassination
    Originally Posted by Vaneras
    Soon™ ;-)

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