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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Yes, but they fail miserably. They get awesome suggestions from experienced arena players on the forums who know more than the developers when it comes to gameplay/balancing and yet they choose to completely ignore them and do their "own thing" which does nothing to fix the problem and most usually just causes more problems. Ignorant/arrogant Blizzard if you ask me.
    Is that why the warlock lead developer (before he was fired) said that during the MoP beta, he sent questions and beta invitations to ALL the well-known and high-level warlock players (Snutz, Azael, etc). NONE of them bothered to respond or hop on to beta to provide feedback. He sent the PVE class questions and invitations to the PVE raiders, and almost everyone offered meaningful feedback.
    I assume the same went on for every class.

    When it comes to whining, PVP players are top-notch. When it comes to actual meaningful feedback (instead of just BUFF ME LOLZ), PVP players just don't give a shit.
    Last edited by corebit; 2012-11-22 at 07:39 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nykolas View Post
    1.) i think you mean dragon soul
    2.) you believe blizzard?
    I highly doubt they would lie about something like that... And it's really not all that strange to believe that the amount of people who takes PvP even remotely seriously in this game is an extreme minority, just look at the players around you. Most people don't even have PvP gear, and amongst those who do not many of them take part of any arena or rated battleground, and even amongst those not all that many does it seriously but mostly for points.

    Looking at Battlegrounds in general is another great way of seeing it, most people just don't care and even bot for XP/honor not giving a damn about the actual PvP gameplay. Amongst those who don't bot most people just sign up to mess around or have a fun time, not to become better at their class and PvP in general, because most people don't care all that much about it. (Same can be said about LFR.)

    The majority of WoW's player-base are extremely casual and barely make it to the end level, even when they do they don't do anything serious and will most likely roll an alt anyways.

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    around 2 million people raid including those who do lfr. only a fraction of that pvp on a consistent basis.

    thats really the core of the problem there just arent enough people who pvp for blizzard to devote tons of time to balance it out all the way. if more people took part in pvp in a consistent manner it would probably get more attention then a slight retuning every couple months and 1 or 2 battlegrounds an expansion
    no if you add something to your game you should fix it and sort problems out no matter what the amount of number of players use it, and there are alot more pvper's than you think, and if 2 million raid what are the other 8 million doing

  4. #24
    Some classes are stronger than others So what just play the game and play your class enjoy it and then you will find that you might start doing better. For example when i see a warrior i know they OP but i don't run away i attack even if i know they gonna kill me. and because i done that so many times i am starting to kill a few warriors because im getting better at my class even if its less OP

  5. #25
    Mechagnome Ineko's Avatar
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    PVP is a joke, a fun little side-game if you will.

    Hardcore raiding is where it's at and if you don't like it go play GW2 or something.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Yes, but they fail miserably. They get awesome suggestions from experienced arena players on the forums who know more than the developers when it comes to gameplay/balancing and yet they choose to completely ignore them and do their "own thing" which does nothing to fix the problem and most usually just causes more problems. Ignorant/arrogant Blizzard if you ask me.
    On the other side, its easy to make suggestions that seems really good and looks like they would work, until you do the math and take everything into consideration, its not as easy to tune stuff like some people seem to think, most people seem to think that its only lower something with 2% or increase soemthing with 3% and everything is perfect

    and name one game that is balanced, there are games that might be a little more balanced and some that are worse, but no game is perfectly balanced and never will be unless you can only play 1 class with same spells.

  7. #27
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    In ghostcrawlers wierd perspective of the world(or warcraft) it is balanced. Seriously, sometimes I feel like he lives in fairyland.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire Syfy's Avatar
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    Nope, never will either.

  9. #29
    Of course the developers of the most successful MMO of all time dont try to balance anything. They throw all the spells in a hat then pick out who gets what at random. I hear on good authority that to determine to power of the spell they roll a D20 dice.

    Although this is a sound strategy that gets past most of the player base there are always smart cookies out there that will spot this, people not too different from yourself, and bring down the whole organisation.

    Threads like this are why the internet was created.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    if more people took part in pvp in a consistent manner it would probably get more attention then a slight retuning every couple months and 1 or 2 battlegrounds an expansion
    A "small" amount is a few million players when comes for WoW percentages. So, I don't really think that this is an excuse, there are always ways to balance pvp, or at least make it much more balanced than this sh*t. They just don't want to spend the resources to do that.

  11. #31
    Perhaps if it was balanced then even more people would want to participate in PVP. 'Low' participation can easily be blamed on it being broken.
    Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Friyn View Post
    They could achieve decent balance if they only wanted. For example, making abilities work different way in PvP and PvE would be a good start, if not the best way. But it's a PvE game, the fact that plain obvious OP/retarded/broken abilities take 1 month for them to fix kinda proves they don't care enough. I refuse to believe they're actually that clueless, even though it does feel like so every now and then...
    Yes, because there is some reason they don't want to. Oh wait, no. These things just are not as simple as they seem someone simple minded.

  13. #33
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    Is that why the warlock lead developer (before he was fired) said that during the MoP beta, he sent questions and beta invitations to ALL the well-known and high-level warlock players (Snutz, Azael, etc). NONE of them bothered to respond or hop on to beta to provide feedback. He sent the PVE class questions and invitations to the PVE raiders, and almost everyone offered meaningful feedback.
    I assume the same went on for every class.

    When it comes to whining, PVP players are top-notch. When it comes to actual meaningful feedback (instead of just BUFF ME LOLZ), PVP players just don't give a shit.
    Oh he said that? not buying it.. Go on the forums and you see some very good suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    On the other side, its easy to make suggestions that seems really good and looks like they would work, until you do the math and take everything into consideration, its not as easy to tune stuff like some people seem to think, most people seem to think that its only lower something with 2% or increase soemthing with 3% and everything is perfect

    and name one game that is balanced, there are games that might be a little more balanced and some that are worse, but no game is perfectly balanced and never will be unless you can only play 1 class with same spells.
    Yes but we are not talking rocket science here, stuff like toning down abilities isn't what I meant. Let's use Warriors for example, their burst and mobility is overpowered, everyone suggests to remove cd stacking by having the abilities put each other on cd and remove the silence from pummel and try something new with Heroic Throw, Blizzard decide to leave the burst as it is (the main source of the problem) and remove root immunity whilst also removing the silences.

    They couldn't be further away from solving the problem.. and have created even more now.

  14. #34
    if blizz fix all the problems now and balance and lisen to what players complain about what would they work on the future patches if there wont be nothing else to fix?! i think or tbh i;m sure they dont rly give much into the PVP and they just thrown a bone from time to time so we can chew on something after that they patch a bit and we roll over again , is just stupid the way they doit but it looks like that for the last couple years

  15. #35
    This change's fine. Should've happened a long time ago but to be honest now they're going to have to buff shaman defenses somehow which will probably not end up well - with them not being able to ground/SLT/tremor while locked/blanketed will make them sitting ducks vs any type of rogue/mage and even rogue/warlock or mage/warlock team for obvious reasons.

    It wasn't as much of a problem for elementals, they're not crazy great as is, but it was still really outdated, dumb design. Now resto shamans will have a tid bit of fun running around feeling like holy paladins have for the past 12 seasons (defense-wise) until the developers feel like they need to buff them again.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Totemgarden View Post
    Totems should not be considered the same as spells, at least for elemental shamans. The reason resto shamans are so over powered in arenas is because of their mastery, tone that down a little bit and leave the rest of the specs alone. I understand that this makes resto more on par with pallys, but you shouldnt make this a class wide change. Only resto needs to be toned down, not elemental and enhancement. At the moment elemental has no defensive cds and no passive damage reduction like spriests and boomkins. Elemental needs something all classes have, a defensive cd thus making elemental the least viable. Im losing to trash warriors, hunters and mages all because they can hurr durr damage and blanket silence plus they have very strong defensive cds. I cant stand losing to terrible 1600 players because warriors and mages can hit over 300k and i dont even have a defensive cd to stop the damage. Okay, i get it, blizzard thinks that only having warriors, hunters and mages one shotting people all the time is fair. Oh and demo locks are absurd as well. If you go through with the totem change elemental will be completely useless in arenas. If blizzard cares at all about the people throwing crazy amounts of money at them look at this post and consider changing what is really needed...
    No they dont try and balance, they pick one class to buff the hell out of because they enjoy watching everyone cry like infants over perceived imbalance and they are intractably against changing it because every tear that falls empowers them.

    /sarcasm off

    /truthful on

    Blizzard isn't going to take your particular post to heart, not in the least, for several reasons, among them the ranting in your post... they DO read well written ones that are posted to the OFFICAL forums.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Yes, but they fail miserably. They get awesome suggestions from experienced arena players on the forums who know more than the developers when it comes to gameplay/balancing and yet they choose to completely ignore them and do their "own thing" which does nothing to fix the problem and most usually just causes more problems. Ignorant/arrogant Blizzard if you ask me.
    i agree with this-then throw the fact that blizz will not separate pvp from pve and we end up with f'ed up pvp.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    In ghostcrawlers wierd perspective of the world(or warcraft) it is balanced. Seriously, sometimes I feel like he lives in fairyland.
    rofl, apparently ghostcrawler runs the world and does everything by himself lol

    OP: first when someone, even you finds a way to balance it let me know. Doing the totems sure will help shamans, then so much QQ will happen about something else, then the never ending cycle goes Xclass is too OP they need a nerf, so they get a nerf, oh shit now Xclass is to UP while the other classes are too OP...i hate wow they need to learn how to balance. So pretty much, just play the way to it, MOST (key word) classes are viable to the average pvper, now the like 2%(not fact so dont ask for my numbers) of players who actually hard core pvp, it could be an issue, but they learn to deal

  19. #39
    Certain abilities, or LACK of certain abilities, just lead to blow-outs in PvP.

    "Spellsteal" "Berserker Rage" "Cyclone" "Avatar 5.0" "The Beast Within (5.0)" et al- just blow balance out of the water. Some of these just can't be countered by certain classes. To be fair, blizzard is taking steps to adjust Avatar and Beast Within, and is FINALLY eyeing Cyclone to be dispellable.

    I'm also VERY concerned they are "fine" with the amount of CC in pvp these days, because you can't play your toon half the time.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelodalix View Post
    This change's fine. Should've happened a long time ago but to be honest now they're going to have to buff shaman defenses somehow which will probably not end up well - with them not being able to ground/SLT/tremor while locked/blanketed will make them sitting ducks vs any type of rogue/mage and even rogue/warlock or mage/warlock team for obvious reasons.

    It wasn't as much of a problem for elementals, they're not crazy great as is, but it was still really outdated, dumb design. Now resto shamans will have a tid bit of fun running around feeling like holy paladins have for the past 12 seasons (defense-wise) until the developers feel like they need to buff them again.
    Excuse me, how do you consider this change as fine?
    I keep asking everyone I can for an answer that makes sense.

    Totems are the iconic class ability for shamans.
    They can be killed easily.

    They are not spells, they are sticks which can be targeted and destroyed by everybody.
    Now, the iconic Shaman class ability is going to suffer both from being physical beings and being spells. How is this justified?
    Totems can be considered as spells the day I can autoattack a Frostbolt.

    This is just plain wrong and unacceptable.
    Lack of interest other than "totems are too good", "enhancement doesn't get silenced anyway" by Blizzard is making me sick. (notice that no mention of elemental even)

    Just because you can't be bothered killing totems to counter their effects, doesn't justify this nerf.
    It's like "nerf iceblock, I blew all my cds but that mage didn't die!"

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