Does blizzard even try to balance this game?

[Chaozu]

PVP is a joke, a fun little side-game if you will.

Hardcore raiding is where it's at and if you don't like it go play GW2 or something.

Actually casual is where it's at, it's what Blizzard focus on the most, and if they had to choose between their hardcore crowd, be it PvP or PvE, and the casual crowd, they would choose casual in a heartbeat because that's where the majority of players are so that's where most of the money is... Same reason they nerfed Heroic Dungeons in early Catacysm and introduced farmville, pet battles and LFR.

[Obelodalix]

Excuse me, how do you consider this change as fine? I keep asking everyone I can for an answer that makes sense.

Totems are the iconic class ability for shamans. They can be killed easily.

They are not spells, they are sticks which can be targeted and destroyed by everybody. Now, the iconic Shaman class ability is going to suffer both from being physical beings and being spells. How is this justified? Totems can be considered as spells the day I can autoattack a Frostbolt.

This is just plain wrong and unacceptable. Lack of interest other than "totems are too good", "enhancement doesn't get silenced anyway" by Blizzard is making me sick. (notice that no mention of elemental even)

So your reasoning for not wanting this nerf is because it doesn't fit the mystical lore of World of Warcraft™? Who cares if it's a stick you put on the ground and that can be targeted and killed or not - you can't kill a tremor before it breaks the fear (unless he's a spastic and uses it when his team mates are feared out of range), you can't kill an SLT before it ticks (unless, again, he's a spastic and uses it without anyone in it), being able to use grounding while blanketed would only make sense if every other healer had a spell they could use to totally negate 1 or more spells while silenced. Which they don't.

It doesn't matter that they can be targeted, this change doesn't really affect healing/mana tide because they're not nearly as crucial/important while silenced/locked out, it still doesn't make any sense far as in game PvP balance goes.

There's no lack of interested. Or there is, but this is not a display of it, it's a good change and every serious PvP will tell you so unless they play an elemental shaman, as said, I do feel for them because that's a lot of their utility gone and they're not even very good as is. Your argument about attacking a frostbolt doesn't even make sense, totems are more like pets than they are spells, mages have never been able to summon water elementals while silenced and they can be attacked as well.

Just because you can't be bothered killing totems to counter their effects, doesn't justify this nerf.

This sounded way too patronizing for my likes. If you honestly think I "can't be bothered killing totems to counter their effects" then you haven't been around long enough and thus should not make wrongful assumptions regarding my game play.

I will refrain from commenting on that last comparison seeing as it's one of the most asinine things I have read in a long while.

[Mithgroth]

So your reasoning for not wanting this nerf is because it doesn't fit the mystical lore of World of Warcraft™? Who cares if it's a stick you put on the ground and that can be targeted and killed or not - you can't kill a tremor before it breaks the fear (unless he's a spastic and uses it when his team mates are feared out of range), you can't kill an SLT before it ticks (unless, again, he's a spastic and uses it without anyone in it), being able to use grounding while blanketed would only make sense if every other healer had a spell they could use to totally negate 1 or more spells while silenced. Which they don't.

Are you kidding me?
Have you even played a shaman once?
What is the point of Tremor Totem if it doesn't break the initial fear? What kind of a logic is that?

Shaman has an unique niche, an iconic class ability just like druid's shapeshift root breaking.
"Healer A, Healer B, Healer C don't have this, so shaman shouldn't too". Let's all destroy whatever's left unique about classes, nice arguement.

Resto is strong, not OP.
Resto mastery on the other hand is OP, by a huge margin.
Instead of directing spec-wide nerfs, Blizzard is trying to solve this in a lazy way and they are avoiding to share more information behind the reasoning with the community.

"Enh doesn't get silenced anyway" shows how wrong they are taking this situation.
Enh relies on spells more than melee attacks in terms of whole toolkit, and we find ourselves silenced more than disarmed as a melee.

It doesn't matter that they can be targeted, this change doesn't really affect healing/mana tide because they're not nearly as crucial/important while silenced/locked out, it still doesn't make any sense far as in game PvP balance goes.

Excuse me, what?
Totems (including Healing Tide) are the only defense we got while silenced as DPS shamans. How come you underestimate their value so easily?
As for resto included, this change only encourages blanket silences which are too many, so skillfully done (!) and ruining PvP. (with too many instant CCs)

There's no lack of interested. Or there is, but this is not a display of it, it's a good change and every serious PvP will tell you so unless they play an elemental shaman, as said, I do feel for them because that's a lot of their utility gone and they're not even very good as is. Your argument about attacking a frostbolt doesn't even make sense, totems are more like pets than they are spells, mages have never been able to summon water elementals while silenced and they can be attacked as well.

I'm a DPS shaman for a very wrong time and I know my class well enough. Also I hate resto shamans more than any of you, simply because none of you gets constantly nerfed because of them.

And no, totems are not like pets, they are like totems. The comparision you made is just apples and oranges, it doesn't even fit or justify your arguement.
This change is killing what is unique about them, and now shaman will have nothing iconic. If totems have both the drawbacks of physical things and spells while gaining none, this change is totally unfair, turning totems into lesser versions of any other cd and making them dispellable by anyone in the mean time.

This sounded way too patronizing for my likes. If you honestly think I "can't be bothered killing totems to counter their effects" then you haven't been around long enough and thus should not make wrongful assumptions regarding my game play.

I will refrain from commenting on that last comparison seeing as it's one of the most asinine things I have read in a long while.

Is it because you are a moderator you can be rude to people, or are you trying to derail from a civilized arguement by insulting?

[Madruga]

Blizzard will never be able to balance PVP.

Not while it has to compete with PVE.

I for one would like to see completely different rules and spells for PVP.

But this will not happen.

[TJ]

Blizzard will never be able to balance PVP.

Not while it has to compete with PVE.

I for one would like to see completely different rules and spells for PVP.

But this will not happen.

It's been said over and over, all abilities need to work like Colossus Smash, different effects in PvE and PvP.

[ParanoiD84]

They should just seperate pvp and pve already, that way a pve nerf would not hurt pvp etc. Also i agree on the totem change, huge nerf for all specs, blizzard makes some very very strange decisions when it comes to balancing.

[naturetauren]

Ghostcrawler needs to get fired.

Im not trolling, im not offensive, im just saying it. For the players best, Ghostcrawler should be replaced. Any other "talented" dev would be better.

[walled56]

This shaman nerf is too big...effected all shaman specs?i know resto shaman is overpowered...but wt about enhance,elemental?did GC ever played them both?....elemental is the most weak in shaman pvp spec.especially elemental shaman survial...they cant even put a Grounding Totem...while fighting a mage.Shaman cant even put a Grounding Totem while frost nova...Improved Counterspell:30s cooldown. Grounding Totem:25s cooldown.so shaman will put less Grounding Totem each 30s.one of the casters(mage) will do to shamans is frost nova>frost bomb>frost bolt>ice lance.at last.shamans dies..............this is patch has the worst pvp balance......and im really very disapoined.again...

sorry for my bad english......

[naturetauren]

This shaman nerf is too big...effected all shaman specs?i know resto shaman is overpowered...but wt about enhance,elemental?did GC ever played them both?....elemental is the most weak in shaman pvp spec.especially elemental shaman survial...they cant even put a Grounding Totem...while fighting a mage.Shaman cant even put a Grounding Totem while frost nova...Improved Counterspell:30s cooldown. Grounding Totem:25s cooldown.so shaman will put less Grounding Totem each 30s.one of the casters(mage) will do to shamans is frost nova>frost bomb>frost bolt>ice lance.at last.shamans dies..............this is patch has the worst pvp balance......and im really very disapoined.again...

sorry for my bad english......

Silence is extremely annoying in MOP. Even skills that doesnt even require your mouth falls under it. It would be so nice removing it but then we have the OP healers with their instants.

[Attsey]

PvE is just as bad. Healing balance at the start of this expansion wasnt fit for purpose. Remember, evrytime they have to "adjust" via nerfing and buffing its an admission that balance is wrong - and they have to do alot of it. Personally, I consider it amateurish.

[Shaderas]

Is it because you are a moderator you can be rude to people, or are you trying to derail from a civilized arguement by insulting?

I'm not sure how you read any real insult into what he posted, but do remember this, you said:

"Just because you can't be bothered killing totems to counter their effects, doesn't justify this nerf."

... and that does come across as sort of an insult to me. If you're going to insult people, then prepare to be insulted in return. Just sayin'

[Itisamuh]

Heading into Cataclysm, Blizzard said they were going to start balancing PvP around BGs and RBGs, not arena. While I think this is a good idea because arena is too small scale and gimmicky, it feels like they never really made the transition. Maybe they forgot.

[SilentStocket]

Keeping the game unbalanced keeps players subbed waiting for the next patch that will fix everything.

[Eliot123]

Ever since GC said that silencing an enhance shaman is like disarming a mage, I lost all faith into their balancing abilities.

[Stormspellz]

Ever since GC said that silencing an enhance shaman is like disarming a mage, I lost all faith into their balancing abilities.

his responses to the criticism on that comment is just as funny and sad.

[naturetauren]

Ever since GC said that silencing an enhance shaman is like disarming a mage, I lost all faith into their balancing abilities.

Well its like that.

Shammy gets silenced no heals, no spells, no totems.

Mages getting disarmed, no blink, no ice block, no shield. Balance.

[Danishgirl]

around 2 million people raid including those who do lfr. only a fraction of that pvp on a consistent basis.

thats really the core of the problem there just arent enough people who pvp for blizzard to devote tons of time to balance it out all the way. if more people took part in pvp in a consistent manner it would probably get more attention then a slight retuning every couple months and 1 or 2 battlegrounds an expansion

Would like to see some source to this?

Anyhow, there may be fewer hardcore PvP'ers compared to hardcore raiders but if you count LFR and normal modes with 35% nerf, you also need to count in random BG's and 2v2. Cause imbalance doesn't only affect the hardcore PvP'ers, it affects everyone else. So I'd be willing to bet that a lot more engage in PvP than just 2 mil.

[Dyros]

I've always felt that Blizzard considers PvP to be a side game, and view the non - PvE community as an inconstant flow of money.

They might push PvP during an expansion to enhance the storyline, or simply give us something to do during a content-lull, but put side by side it's easy to see which style of play is preferred by the developers. Progression raiding takes weeks and months to clear single tiers. Daily grinds and reputations take weeks as well. Two simple examples that both bind a player to subscribing, until they get burnt out.

PvP doesn't have the same time sinks. It's incredibly easy and fast to gear with honor, and the only real grind is completely optional and won't hinder your experience (Arena/BG Ratings). Due to this. I believe it's lesser valued, and as such, gets tacked onto the bottom of the To-Do list. They try to maintain some semblance of balance, but at the end of the day it's not worth their time.

Just an opinion, of course.

[Danishgirl]

I've always felt that Blizzard considers PvP to be a side game, and view the non - PvE community as an inconstant flow of money.

They might push PvP during an expansion to enhance the storyline, or simply give us something to do during a content-lull, but put side by side it's easy to see which style of play is preferred by the developers. Progression raiding takes weeks and months to clear single tiers. Daily grinds and reputations take weeks as well. Two simple examples that both bind a player to subscribing, until they get burnt out.

PvP doesn't have the same time sinks. It's incredibly easy and fast to gear with honor, and the only real grind is completely optional and won't hinder your experience (Arena/BG Ratings). Due to this. I believe it's lesser valued, and as such, gets tacked onto the bottom of the To-Do list. They try to maintain some semblance of balance, but at the end of the day it's not worth their time.

Just an opinion, of course.

I get you point but I honestly don't see, how Blizz could make an Arena season last longer, without just making it more grindy. Lower the Conquest cap? Lower the amount of Conquest points you earn per win? Make more Arenas?

I think that the Arena Tournament is a really good step in the right direction and a good way to give the really hardcore and skilled PvP'ers some attention and credit. Even though I'm a PvE'er and only PvP for fun, I really enjoy watching that tournament.

Again, I think it's hard to really make more content for PvP'ers. Then it should be more BG's but that wouldn't change anything for those who only do Arena.