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  1. #81
    Well looks like your guild wants an aff lock now. Either play aff or don't raid with them anymore. Sure some specs are more fun on a personal level than others but you are not a special snowflake. You should go beg Blizzard to buff your spec a little for 5.1 rather than trying to fight your guild over it.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by iluwen_de View Post
    Its amazing that someone acting this selfish can honestly feel like "the others" are making a mistake by not wanting to play with him anymore.

    The argument "I do enough DPS to theoretically beat the enrage timer" is and never was a valid one. More DPS means a shorter fight and a shorter fight means less room for mistakes by anyone and it means more time for the next bosses, some of which might be new to the raid and take a lot of time to learn. At the very least, it means all the players in the raid save some time that they can spend otherwise.

    It is rather bold to waste the time of others because of selfish reasons. If you raid mainly because you want to do things your way, then you are doing it wrong. It is about a team effort and the right attidtude is independent from the level of play.
    Unless a spec is drastically underperforming to the point of being broken; it's probably actually wiser and more productive to let the player play the spec they enjoy as they'll usually actually play it better than they would the theoretically better spec; especially if they're completely lacking in experience with it and need to relearn, regear and re-adapt to all the encounters to the new abilities their new spec offers.

    "They should take the time out themselves to learn it", I hear you cry; well, how long are you prepared to wait for them? This is where the casual argument comes in. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours so in the grand scheme of things we rate ourselves as pretty casual, but outside that, there's VP capping, dailies, heroics, LFR, consumable farming etc. That's quite a time sink just for the basics before you even consider what you want to be doing; so when it comes to a question of asking someone to learn something new, or master something they already do the latter is a much more reasonable ask.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Destruction may be behind Affliction in the sims, but on those same sims it's still above 13 other DPS specs; including Shadow Priests, Balance Druids, Hunters, Ret Paladins, Monks and Elemental Shaman who lack alternative specs to fill the same role (Elemental going Enhancement isn't necessarily desirable for the player who wants to play ranged, or the raid who need the utility Elemental provides). The problem therefore, is not the spec: It's you.
    Pretty much this. Destruction might, in theory, be worse than Affliction, but it's not bad, by any means. In fact, played properly, you could be destroying everyone else in your raid, as Zumzum proves if you look at his Destruction logs on World of Logs. Very few people know how to play Destruction properly.

    Your guild don't want you to change spec, they want you to do more dps - which is fair. It's up to you how you fix that.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    you could be destroying everyone else in your raid, as Zumzum
    Well now, that's not very tactful.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by meegosh View Post
    Well now, that's not very tactful.
    Haha. Pun not intended.

  6. #86
    if you not ok with this then find another guild that will let you raid as demo/Destro. If not, then the best thing is to just stick to Aff dude. Learn it play it and try to find something you like about it. There must be something that you can enjoy.

    I really enjoy demo myself but keeping an Aff off spec for when I can't be demo. Yeah it sucks. But hey, at least I can play demo anywhere else.

  7. #87
    So, you're underperforming, your guild is struggling on an (relatively) easy boss, and they look at what they can improve. I have a certain amount of respect regarding letting people play the specc they want to (if viable), but I do not see where your guild went wrong. If you really like destro that much and want to keep playing it, get better at destro so that they won't have a reason to replace you.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Haha. Pun not intended.
    I'm assuming his comment about tact was because that's the same Meegosh who raids with Zum.

    On topic, I personally think that for most very good to excellent players Affliction will be the spec that produces the highest dps. Whereas for players below that (ranging from bad to good but not great) the highest dps spec is likely to be the one that the player most enjoys. Trying to force someone to change is unlikely to yield positive results.

    If the OP is trundling along at the bottom of the meters and somebody performing better has taken his place then that's fair enough but if he's a middling to high performer (within the context of his guild) and they left him out because he wouldn't switch to a spec that produces theoretically higher dps then they've made a mistake.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Unless a spec is drastically underperforming to the point of being broken; it's probably actually wiser and more productive to let the player play the spec they enjoy as they'll usually actually play it better than they would the theoretically better spec; especially if they're completely lacking in experience with it and need to relearn, regear and re-adapt to all the encounters to the new abilities their new spec offers.

    "They should take the time out themselves to learn it", I hear you cry; well, how long are you prepared to wait for them? This is where the casual argument comes in. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours so in the grand scheme of things we rate ourselves as pretty casual, but outside that, there's VP capping, dailies, heroics, LFR, consumable farming etc. That's quite a time sink just for the basics before you even consider what you want to be doing; so when it comes to a question of asking someone to learn something new, or master something they already do the latter is a much more reasonable ask.
    First of all, we are talking about a potential 16% difference in DPS-output between the two specs, which is huge. There is no way that a rather experienced player like the OP - judging from his history on mmo-c - would be bad enough with another spec in order to waste all of the potential damage gain. We are not talking about a feral druid going balance or something like that, which would mean a different role. We are talking a different rotation within the same role.

    Also, the OP doesn´t argue that he could do it - he just doesn´t want to. And thats what my whole point is about.

    If the OP is trundling along at the bottom of the meters and somebody performing better has taken his place then that's fair enough but if he's a middling to high performer (within the context of his guild) and they left him out because he wouldn't switch to a spec that produces theoretically higher dps then they've made a mistake.
    I don´t see where this matters. If a player can improve his performance and thereby help his raid, he should do it. What does it matter if other people may or may not be as good as that player? Thats exactly the attitude the OP shows "I know I could do a lot better but I don´t want to. Suck it!".
    Last edited by iluwen_de; 2012-11-22 at 05:44 PM.

  10. #90
    Blademaster john-scar's Avatar
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    if your raiding normal your not casual

  11. #91
    Stood in the Fire Grap's Avatar
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    well don't complain. i played demo only for years in a progress guild.
    but now i have to play also affliction and i'm doing very well and even that i'd prefer playing demo cuz of the playstyle i love i also like playing affli.
    and there are a couple of fights where affli performs better than demo.

    and s a "pure" dd class you HAVE to master all 3 ways of damage...just my 2 cents

  12. #92
    I think I agree with the majority of the players here.

    It seems you're overconfident and too quick to point fingers at your guild. While they should have dealed with the matter differently and be more clear, it's pretty obvious that they benched you because your dps is too low - in short, they believe you're not pulling your weight in the raid. Whether or not that's because of destro is up to you to decide. I believe that though destro is not the best spec, reasonable numbers can be achieved especially in a more casual guild. Plus, the fact you refuse to change spec to hopefully increase your already low dps, shows that you're too centered on yourself and not on the group-effort that raiding is.

    Furthermore, as more people pointed out, dps is not about "not hitting the enrage". Dps is about getting the raid through stuff fast - for example, the first boss in HoF, with good DPS you get through phases faster, which can be crucial to your raid's survival (the less aoe phases, for example, the more likely nobody dies, etc.).


    Lastly - skill. You claim you're a good player. I see people claim they're good players every day. Most of them aren't good. Would I call myself good? No, I call myself capable. The risk with calling yourself good is that you stop caring about improvement, you risk sliding to the "I'm good enough" attitude, which is exactly what you seem to be at now: you refuse to improve. Your dps is clearly subpar (else they would not bench you), even though, as mentioned earlier, though destro is not the best spec it still has the potential - plus you refuse to go a spec that would increase your DPS. So no, stop labeling yourself good, because the truth is, you're not. Consider yourself capable and able to fix every problem that comes your way (such as dps), and maybe someday others will perceive you good, however.

    Good luck.


    Edit: I'd like to point out to some people that the argument "if you're not very good at affliction and you do more as destro, stay destro" really isn't valid. Any good player (as OP claims to be) can play any spec at high level in any circumstance.
    Last edited by Cirque; 2012-11-22 at 06:07 PM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by iluwen_de View Post
    First of all, we are talking about a potential 16% difference in DPS-output between the two specs, which is huge. There is no way that a rather experienced player like the OP - judging from his history on mmo-c - would be bad enough with another spec in order to waste all of the potential damage gain. We are not talking about a feral druid going balance or something like that, which would mean a different role. We are talking a different rotation within the same role.

    Also, the OP doesn´t argue that he could do it - he just doesn´t want to. And thats what my whole point is about.
    What? Then you say this?
    I don´t see where this matters. If a player can improve his performance and thereby help his raid, he should do it. What does it matter if other people may or may not be as good as that player? Thats exactly the attitude the OP shows "I know I could do a lot better but I don´t want to. Suck it!".
    I'm saying he can, and should improve his performance. I am also saying changing spec isn't necessarily the answer to that if they don't have the time or resources to commit to a new spec (or even just dampens their enjoyment of the game - you wont do as well if can't be arsed with what you're doing). That playing Destruction is not his problem, since it's still in the top half of spec performance overall. If his DPS is bad with a spec in the top half, then there simply isn't much scope for improvement by switching spec; and a lot more can be gained by improving the player. Spec, gear, reforges, gems, enchants, potions... those things are all adding increments, but the largest and most significant factor in the players performance is the player themselves.

    I can catagorically say that I have never in 6 years of playing seen a player changing to a "superior" spec be the magic wand answer to fixing DPS issues with a player, except where they spec they were playing was so far below the rest of the pack as to be considered broken. Even there, we're looking at a difference between 'bad' and 'not quite as bad'; not 'bad' and 'meter topping awesomesauce'.

  14. #94
    Your guild sucks. Leave them and find a guild who actually enjoy the game.

  15. #95
    It's not the spec it's you. All specs can do more than enough dps to help the raid, you don't have to be in THE best spec to do good damage. The problem is it sounds like you're seriously lagging behind. Look up more guides about destro and how to improve and you wouldn't have to change your spec would be my guess. show them you're willing to put in the time to play the spec you want.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Kapaya View Post
    So you're doing shit DPS, you know you do, yet you don't want to swap speccs that will increase your DPS cause you are fine on enrage timers? I see no reason why this raid should carry you? Casual does not mean that you are allowed to be bad and drag down your raid. I see no problem with what has happend to you.
    I play Demonology even though I'm fully aware of that Afflicition is stronger. It's a choice of play style, not everyone enjoys all specs within a class and when it comes down to it, if you don't enjoy your time playing a game it's not worth playing it to begin with.

    @OP, sucks for you, sounds like your guild wasn't quite as casual as you thought. =/ A casual guild is in for the enjoyment of the game, playing a less optimal spec should be fully acceptable for as long as you down the bosses.

    I recommend you trying to find a better guild that cares more about having a good time and less about min-maxing.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    Your guild sucks. Leave them and find a guild who actually enjoy the game.
    Yes because wiping with a group of ppl that play the worst spec they can is fun.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  18. #98
    looks to me like you have personal problems with your guild mates and not the problem with the spec.

  19. #99
    Brewmaster Playintrafic's Avatar
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    If you wont switch specs to suit the mechanics you wont find many guilds that want you.

    I'd understand not switching roles. But specs? Cmon.

  20. #100
    Bloodsail Admiral hiragana's Avatar
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    Blame blizzard, their fault they cant balance specs. players cant be trusted to not be cunts.

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