Page 7 of 16 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
9
... LastLast
  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Thats just not true.
    Take 4.3, being fury instead of arms was a noticeable loss.
    Same 4.3. Being anything besides destro was a noticeable loss.(bar some some add fights)

    With that said, often when being unfamiliar with a spec you'll end up performing worse for a while.
    Still i dont think this is the issue with OP, just judging from his mentality, he shouldn't be raiding, raiding is a team effort, casual or not imo...

    Saying, ohh well, but the rest of the raid is carrying me so we're not hitting enrage timers, we're fine...
    WRONG, the longer the fight, the more human error comes into play, resources(mainly healer mana) is being pushed to the limit.
    Doing 7-8k more dps is about 3 million damage done, which is NOT negligible in any way.

    As an example, i played prot mainspec with arms offspec, i still went fury to help the raid during spine hc progression(due to loss of a raider) just so we could keep pushing trough. Moral of the story, its a team effort, you do whatever YOU can to help the raid, if that means playin affil for some progression fights, then play it.

    Edit. SimC also has normal t14 bis profiles, so that argument is not valid im afraid

    You can't compare simulations to a real raid. Ever. Even the slightest difference from the actuall simulations throws everythin in the dumpster. For example, BiS normal gear. Which they obviously don't have. So I am afraid it is a valid argument

    Yeah, you can get an estimate of what your spec is CAPABLE of performing. But, kicking someone out of a guild that is still doing normal (w/e boss it was) with the only reason being 'wrong spec' is just stupid. And is not a valid argument in any way.

    Now, I don't know if it was the only reason. I highly doubt it. I would guess, that he is playing destruction and doing bad dps. But in that case changing spec won't help.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Same 4.3. Being anything besides destro was a noticeable loss.(bar some add fights)
    Umm, what?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Kissme View Post
    Everyone seems hung up on the spec and dps issues. Honestly, the OP is keying on being benched because "he won't play afflict and the RL wants him to", but unless his performance is drastically below the group's average, he's more likely being benched for attitude and personality. Everything in his post comes off as him wanting to do things his way regardless of the group's performance or desires. When you are part of a raid team, you are part of a team. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices so the group can succeed. The OP has every right to play the spec of his choice regardless of what other's think, however the group has every right to not bring him.

    People are focussing too much on the spec issue. If he was dropped for not speccing to afflict it wasn't because of his choice of spec. It was because he was underperforming compared to what the raid leaders and officers expected, or underperforming compared to the hassle of bringing him. They wanted him to spec to afflict because it is theoretically the best spec, thus they thought that playing the best spec would improve his performance (whether or not it would is open to debate).

    Whether it was performance or personality, the simple fact is the OP was benched because he wasn't up to the standard the guild wanted. It's on his shoulders to either improve his performance, improve his attitude, or find a guild with lower standards. It's that simple.

    Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

    But everyone in here keeps raging about 'maximize your dps or quit the game'. Which is just ridiculus.

    In a guild that is at his progression rate, it is totally acceptable to raid in any spec you want. Since you WILL be pulling your weight if you know how to play your class.

  4. #124
    It seems that the word casual is being used as an excuse not to pay attention to how you should be playing. I've played with a survival hunter that does more than a similarity geared BM hunter, but not by much. The only excuse you should have as a 'casual' is in the enchanting department, if you don't have enough time to make the gold for Jade Spirit / Dancing Steel / whatever expensive bracer enchants you don't have because you are bad casual.
    Last edited by Exac; 2012-11-22 at 10:26 PM. Reason: Whoops, casual =/= bad.

  5. #125
    Your guild is not a casual guild if they're trying to shove a spec down your throat to the point where they don't even let you raid with them anymore. I've been in that spot before and I quit as soon as the issue was brought up to me.

  6. #126
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Södermalm
    Posts
    1,920
    Quote Originally Posted by ErayoEU View Post
    You can't compare simulations to a real raid. Ever. Even the slightest difference from the actuall simulations throws everythin in the dumpster. For example, BiS normal gear. Which they obviously don't have. So I am afraid it is a valid argument

    Yeah, you can get an estimate of what your spec is CAPABLE of performing. But, kicking someone out of a guild that is still doing normal (w/e boss it was) with the only reason being 'wrong spec' is just stupid. And is not a valid argument in any way.

    Now, I don't know if it was the only reason. I highly doubt it. I would guess, that he is playing destruction and doing bad dps. But in that case changing spec won't help.
    Of course i can compare simulations to a real raid(assuming the sims are fairly accurate) i however cant sim a patchwerk on a heavy movement fight and expect to hit the same numbers.
    It is and will continue to be a good indicator for how much you're spec can(and "should") perform, this is why simulations are based on averages of 1k/10k/50k iterations, will rng sometimes gimp you ? Of course, will you sometimes have the stars align and beat the sims, of course.

    Ok, lets ignore any form of premade gear profiles, he can just import his armory

    If not using sims, What would you like us to do ? Guess ?

    Either way, my point wasn't to discuss SimC (i seriously doubt spec is the OP's real problem)
    It's more likely he's under performing and raid leader is seeking a way to improve his dps.
    I also dont think we heard the whole story from OP.
    Last edited by santa666; 2012-11-22 at 10:34 PM.

  7. #127
    If you're not pushing heroics EVERY spec can do the dps needed to down the boss. It's up to the player to be able to pull that top dps from the spec though.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by RH exact View Post
    It seems that the word casual is being used as an excuse not to pay attention to how you should be playing. I've played with a survival hunter that does more than a similarity geared BM hunter, but not by much. The only excuse you should have as a 'casual' is in the enchanting department, if you don't have enough time to make the gold for Jade Spirit / Dancing Steel / whatever expensive bracer enchants you don't have because you are bad casual.
    i couldnt agree more on this casual part, oh its casual i can herp a derp its fine cause its casual. anyway back on topic semi, you probably did worse, you seem like if someone went wrong you'd flip. and in raids you have to make sacrifices, which you clearly didnt want to do so the simplest thing is replace your weakest link and move on, or atleast the link that wont do whats needed to succeed

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Kapaya View Post
    So you're doing shit DPS, you know you do, yet you don't want to swap speccs that will increase your DPS cause you are fine on enrage timers? I see no reason why this raid should carry you? Casual does not mean that you are allowed to be bad and drag down your raid. I see no problem with what has happend to you.
    totally agree with this...nice reply

  10. #130
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Södermalm
    Posts
    1,920
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Umm, what?
    Single target, demo only pulled ahead on static nuke fights, which would only be ultraxxion. (yeh, was bit eager to make a point, forgot about it)
    http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t111390-...id_Performance

  11. #131
    Bloodsail Admiral Rustweaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,018
    We have a Hunter in our guild that is hell-bent on Being MM and is always - always - last on DPS. Often behind or on par with our tanks and it's just so aggravating because we simply don't have the roster to replace him. He's a great guy and has been in the guild for awhile but when he is pulling 35k on most boss fights and being stubborn about swapping to BM or even Survival, it's just a lot more weight placed on the rest of the group when others aren't performing as best as they can and that's frustrating at any level of play.

    We've actually had pugs do better than a couple of our DPS because of L2P issues and I'm now in the position to speak with the other officers and GM that pugs may be the ultimate answer until he realizes he's a burden on the rest of us and stops trying to justify his low numbers. After so many 1x% enrage wipes on Spiritbinder for nearly four weeks, something's gotta give with some of our DPS and it's no longer a gear issue since this hunter in question is ~475 item level.
    Last edited by Rustweaver; 2012-11-22 at 10:35 PM.
    A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Single target, demo only pulled ahead on static nuke fights, which would only be ultraxxion. (yeh, was bit eager to make a point, forgot about it)
    http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t111390-...id_Performance

    Yes, Demo. You said Destro. That in mind, all 3 specs were perfectly viable and competitive in DS.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustweaver View Post
    We have a Hunter in our guild that is hell-bent on Being MM and is always - always - last on DPS. Often behind or on par with our tanks and it's just so aggravating because we simply don't have the roster to replace him. He's a great guy and has been in the guild for awhile but when he is pulling 35k on most boss fights and being stubborn about swapping to BM or even Survival, it's just a lot more weight placed on the rest of the group when others aren't performing as best as they can and that's frustrating at any level of play.

    We've actually had pugs do better than a couple of our DPS because of L2P issues and I'm now in the position to speak with the other officers and GM that pugs may be the ultimate answer until he realizes he's a burden on the rest of us. After so many 1x% enrage wipes on Spiritbinder for nearly four weeks, something's gotta give with some of our DPS and it's no longer a gear issue since this hunter in question is ~475 item level.
    This is exactly what I mean about it's every person's responsibility to pull their weight of dps from spec. I'm MM ilvl 477 and I can pull at least 51-55k so something is wrong.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Of course i can compare simulations to a real raid(assuming the sims are fairly accurate) i however cant sim a patchwerk on a heavy movement fight and expect to hit the same numbers.
    It is and will continue to be a good indicator for how much you're spec can(and "should") perform, this is why simulations are based on averages of 1k/10k/50k iterations, will rng sometimes gimp you ? Of course, will you sometimes have the stars align and beat the sims, of course.

    Ok, lets ignore any form of premade gear profiles, he can just import his armory...so its still not a valid argument, sry m8

    If not using sims, What would you like us to do ? Guess ?

    Either way, my point wasn't to discuss SimC (i seriously doubt spec is the OP's real problem)
    It's more likely he's under performing and raid leader is seeking a way to improve his dps.
    I also dont think we heard the whole story from OP.

    Simulations simply isn't a good way to estimate his dps.

    The only thing that matters is wether or not he is up to par with the rest of the raid. If he is, this thread wouldn't exist. If he isn't.. Well, the he needs to learn to play his class.

    Simulations is just something stupid and elitist which have nothing to do with a real raid.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by ErayoEU View Post
    Simulations simply isn't a good way to estimate his dps.

    The only thing that matters is wether or not he is up to par with the rest of the raid. If he is, this thread wouldn't exist. If he isn't.. Well, the he needs to learn to play his class.

    Simulations is just something stupid and elitist which have nothing to do with a real raid.
    Simulations are an extremely useful tool to estimate someone's DPS and figure out how to optimise. Please don't spread false information without knowing what you're talking about.

  16. #136
    This is going to be a little harsh.

    It sounds to me like you know that you could improve your dps and choose not to, assuming that mediocre is good enough. It doesn't sound like you are trying to do your best. That doesn't mean that you have to pull great numbers. It means that you owe your fellow raiders the respect and consideration to be applying yourself fully to your performance. If you don't care enough about the people you raid with to want to do better and make their lives easier... well, they probably don't like you that much, either.

    Because of this, and because of your attitude here in your posts, I think your problem may be your personality. You seem to be a little entitled, argumentative, and seem like you may put down your fellow raiders-- "fuck this shit," telling them what to do even though you aren't the raid leader, making them feel like they are bad, "stuck on normal mode Tay'ak casual," or like you don't care about them, since you're not interested in making any changes that would benefit them.

    My guess would be that your guild sat you for several reasons, chief among them being annoyance or displeasure at your attitude and at your lack of synergy with the personalities of the other raiders. They probably simply don't like you that much.

    If your attitude was better, I would bet that your guild wouldn't mind letting you raid as your preferred spec unless they were wiping to dps issues.
    Last edited by Daetur; 2012-11-22 at 10:46 PM.

  17. #137
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    3,031
    Quote Originally Posted by Alta87 View Post
    I agree. Raiding is not about how you like to play the game, it never has been. You play with whatever style and specc that will benefit the raid.
    You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

    Like, literally - the truth is the exact opposite of the ignorant rubbish you just chose to type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    This is going to be a little harsh.

    It sounds to me like you know that you could improve your dps and choose not to, assuming that mediocre is good enough. It doesn't sound like you are trying to do your best. That doesn't mean that you have to pull great numbers. It means that you owe your fellow raiders the respect and consideration to be applying yourself fully to your performance.

    Because of this, and because of your attitude here in your posts, I think your problem may be your personality. You seem to be a little entitled, argumentative, and seem like you may put down your fellow raiders-- "fuck this shit," making them feel like they are bad, "stuck on normal mode Tay'ak casual," or like you don't care about them, since you're not interested in making any changes that would benefit them.

    My guess would be that your guild sat you for several reasons, chief among them being annoyance or displeasure at your attitude and at your lack of synergy with the personalities of the other raiders. They probably simply don't like you that much.
    I think this is far closer to the mark.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  18. #138
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Södermalm
    Posts
    1,920
    Quote Originally Posted by ErayoEU View Post
    Simulations simply isn't a good way to estimate his dps.

    The only thing that matters is wether or not he is up to par with the rest of the raid. If he is, this thread wouldn't exist. If he isn't.. Well, the he needs to learn to play his class.

    Simulations is just something stupid and elitist which have nothing to do with a real raid.
    Care to explain how you would estimates ones dps based on his current gear ?
    Without an indicator of what your character is able to perform, how would you know if you're under performing or not ?

    Why is it elitist wanting to perform your best ? :s

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Simulations are an extremely useful tool to estimate someone's DPS and figure out how to optimise. Please don't spread false information without knowing what you're talking about.


    But it is exactly that! It's an estimate of what your class, under perfect conditions could perform. Not something anyone should be measured after.

    Finding out rotations/gear/geming/enchanting/etc is another topic and not something I thught we were discussing here.

  20. #140
    Jeez, this game's community really does suck, just look at some of the replies in this thread. I feel your pain OP, when my guild was doing 10 mans I was constantly getting sat (though for me my only option would be to re-roll since I'm a hunter, my best spec is maybe 5-6k above my worst and they are all terrible). Blizzard has really screwed up balance so far with this expac and it's seriously hurting guilds and players.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •