Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Frost DK 2H, +320 haste gem or 80 STR + 160 haste gemming??

    Hey outhere!

    I have been thinking about this question for a while now, and couldn't really come up with anything brilliant, so I wanted to hear if anyone of you have a descent opinion about this.

    I have the Tier 14 2-setbonus which as you know gives med 10% extra damage on OB and FS. The question is then if I should gem +320 haste or keep my 80 STR + 160 Haste gems.
    I have tried simming it, and my DPS is slighty increased (around 1k) with +320 haste gems, but I'm not quite sure I believe it do to my own experience with the different sockets.
    With +320 haste gems I'm sitting on 14845 STR and 6745 Haste. Simmingg ~ 88k.
    With 80 STR + 160 haste gems I'm sitting on 15345 STR and 5955 Haste. Simming ~ 89k

    Help please!

  2. #2
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,227
    Depends on your stat weights, use Simcraft to find them.

  3. #3
    You know you're simming higher with strength gems, why do you still want help?

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Dô yöû even liƒt¿
    Posts
    671
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    You know you're simming higher with strength gems, why do you still want help?
    Exatcly...
    Death Knight -> Italiandk
    Shaman -> Cashrain
    Paladin -> Healyoutru
    Priest -> Ängel
    Monk -> Skadoosh
    Mage -> Icydeath

  5. #5
    You contradict yourself. Your sentence says you simmed higher with 320 haste, but your results indicate otherwise working under the 89>88 assumption.

  6. #6
    With the change to haste from strength you're losing 500 strength and only gaining 790 haste going by those numbers, is it just me or should it be more of a haste gain then that? If not then strength is definitely the way to go.

  7. #7
    What's you gear ilvl and weapon? I don't think based on those numbers your at the break point yet.

    I hit the break point last night (494 ilvl 496 weapon Sha 2H w/ 2PC). I ran a 50K iteration simcraft model and Haste came out as the better gemming strategy (STR =1.00, Haste = 0.57) for the first time.

    I'm sitting unbuffed on:

    STR= 15798
    Hit/Exp capped
    Haste= 9422
    Crit= 3677
    Mastery= 1416

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerGamez View Post
    I don't think based on those numbers your at the break point yet.
    There isn't a specific break point.

    Haste will probably be better if you have a weapon that is better than the rest of your gear, and it might be better if you have two set, but the only real answer is to sim it.

  9. #9
    There is no specific break point however I think a rough guess would be ~493 ilvl w/ 496/502 weapon. I could sim it to test it out with lower weapons but yeah - it varies from every person.

  10. #10
    Sorry I wrote in the wrong numbers. I sim 89k with haste gems and 88k with str + haste gems, my bad.

    I have 484 iLVL with Starshatter (N).
    Yeah I loose 500 STR and gain 800 haste, but according to simcraft this should be better.

  11. #11
    Well if you're simming better with haste gems then go with haste.

    Just keep in mind that haste being better now doesn't mean it will always better from now on.

    On a slightly related note, I'm currently sitting at 11k haste and it's just amazing how much more there is to do than at lower gear levels.

    When I can make good use of anti magic shell I pretty much just don't have empty gcds.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2012-11-21 at 11:37 PM.

  12. #12
    11k haste? Armory link?

  13. #13
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thaze/advanced

    I probably won't have this much haste for long, I just happen to be wearing a lot of very well itemised gear right now.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2012-11-21 at 11:59 PM.

  14. #14
    I'm trying to figure out the same as well. Gemming haste has feels so much better compared to str; there's a much better flow, but I haven't actually figured out which gives the better dps for my gear yet.

  15. #15
    That's why we have sims, you don't have to figure anything out.

    Just keep in mind that gaining runic power from anti magic shell can be a smaller dps increase with haste gems than with strength gems.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    That's why we have sims, you don't have to figure anything out.

    Just keep in mind that gaining runic power from anti magic shell can be a smaller dps increase with haste gems than with strength gems.
    Not really, if you can't play exactly like the sim you won't do the same DPS as the sim. The standard method of simming is a straight out nuke with 0 downtime on the boss with no cleaving or target swaps, most boss fights don't work like that.

    It's awesome that the WoW community has such easy access to simcraft these days, the authors have done an amazing job, but I don't think they would be too thrilled to see it become the new gear score 2.0. Look at the data in context to your own play style otherwise you may aswell not use it at all and we can go back to looking at the BiS stat weights off EJ and just doing what that says to do.

    I just did a sim of my latest gear and it's getting very tempting to start gemming haste. At the normalised values 1 Haste is 0.48 vs Str at 1.0, DPS loss on single target is trivial compared to spending less time rune locked which to be fair isn't happening all that much either. Since I started using Plague Leech regardless of Rime procs the 2 GCD's you spend reapplying diseases seems to help alleviate rune locking somewhat.

    Which in turn leads me to real value of BT vs RE as 2H. If I'm not getting rune locked as 2h Frost then I can't fathom how BT is an increase in DPS when it has the lowest throughput of all the options. Anyone wanna shed some light on that for me?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    The standard method of simming is a straight out nuke with 0 downtime on the boss with no cleaving or target swaps, most boss fights don't work like that.
    This is true, but many boss fights have a significant portion of the fight which resembles sim conditions pretty closely.

    It just comes down to what you want to gear for really.

    A lot of the time strength will just be better because of encounter mechanics, and a lot of the time it won't.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    There isn't a specific break point.

    Haste will probably be better if you have a weapon that is better than the rest of your gear, and it might be better if you have two set, but the only real answer is to sim it.
    Yes there is. I suspect it to be at 6500 haste and/or depending on your strength. According to simm I just passed it with haste being 0.54 worth of strength, meaning the +320 haste gem out DPS the +80 strenght 160 haste and even the +160 strength.

  19. #19
    The relative value of haste and strength depends on every piece of gear you have, with weapons and tier being the biggest factors, It's more complicated than "X is true so haste is better".

    We don't have extra dot ticks to go for or anything like that, for us it's just a choice between hitting harder or more often.

    It's better when it sims better, but as a guideline, haste is usually worth considering if you have tier two set or if your weapon is better than the rest of your gear.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2012-11-22 at 08:00 AM.

  20. #20
    But as other people have explained, the simming only calculates a fight with zero movement, so yeah I would expect haste to be better in these situations, but on a fight like say Blade Lord, you have move around quite a lot, so in my opinion hitting harder would be a better choice on fight like this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •