Elegon 10N, please help!

[Rivellana]

First off, let me say I realize there are a lot of these threads since lots of smaller guilds are being roadblocked by Elegon but I was hoping to get some help specific to my guild's situation.

We are a very casual raiding guild, raiding only two nights a week/three hours a night. We have been raiding like this for about a month and have made about 25 or so attempts on Elegon. Spending hours on him last night I'm wondering if we're even capable of downing him currently. While we did make some progress we never got him under 75% even.

I volunteered some weeks ago to start keeping logs so I do have some logs, however, I'm not sure of the accuracy of them on certain bosses (mainly Garajal and Elegon) because of being out of range of some people for large portions of the fight. Combat logs are here:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/235719/

We opted to go with two healers since that seemed to be the method used by most guilds, however I'm concerned that our raiders as a whole are undergeared and that we won't be able to down the boss in our current gear. One of our healers swaps to dps spec for the fight but hasn't had a lot of time to learn the spec. We seem to be having a lot of issues with tank swaps between the boss and big adds...one of them will suddenly start taking tons and tons of damage and end up dying and then our combat rez is gone for the fight.

Our strategy has been to kill the last big add before he gets to 85% and then split up and assign a tank and a healer to each side and dps are each assigned their own add/pillar to kill. Our biggest issue seems to be after joining back up, we get all the adds together and go for the platform to aoe them down and they end up killing one or more people instead. The one attempt that we managed to get further than that and kill all the small adds, we ended up getting two large adds shortly after and dying.

Can someone help me figure out what we can do better? I even suggested to my raid leader having me sit out and having our resto druid who had gone boomkin for the fight heal and bringing an actual dps in because as a mistweaver monk my raid healing is awesome but my tank healing is about as bad as any healer can possibly get and I'm concerned the tanks taking nosedives is my fault.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

[Candiman]

Only thing I can say that might help is that your tank who's tanking Elegon either need to blow one of their cooldowns or get an external cooldown when the big adds die. Add AoE + Breath +high stacks = dead tank and in my experience the breath and adds dying happens at most a couple of second apart.

[Slak]

1) if you are worried try the first boss or two in HoF for a change fo pace, they are easier then elegon.

20 For elegon, as you said there are tons of threads.

2 healing is the way to go
tanks need to learn to use cds and to taunt the adds better. Tell your dps not to nuke the adds until tanks have control, dot them, don't nuke them until they are the floor taking extra damage. Tell your tanks to talk, "I have 5 adds you take the boss, ok I only have have 2, np."

You need to make sure you only get two adds before 85%, if you are getting more pre-pot. If you still can't do it you don't have the dps for the fight, get more gear or better raiders.

Kill the pillars as close to the same time as possible, on my side I call out if we aren't balanced and have a dps swap targets. This reduces number of adds, makes transition much cleaner.

from 85-50% we get 4 adds because our dps is challenged. We also only down 3 waves and ignore the 4th for 8 stacks in final phase.

Work on the fight one bit at a time, if you fail on part, wipe it and try again.

Again if you can't get 2 adds then 85% or you can't even kill 3 waves of sparks go play in Hof, its definitely a hard fight for casual guilds.

Edit: your tank needs to be using a major cd for every annihilate just before the tank swap, at 12 tanks plus breath plus annihilate he will die. Tanking 101.

[Tinsoul]

I don't think your healing concern is valid. Your druid as moonkin seems to be one of your better dps. And you are healing with a shaman. If you feel your tank healing is weak, have the shaman focus the tank around the protector deaths and you primarily keep the raid up.

There are a series of progression steps you go through on this fight.
- figuring out how to keep tanks alive during protector deaths
- allocating dps to get through the first phase with just 2 protectors / properly transitioning with no protectors up
- allocating dps to get 3-4 (preferably 4) waves of charges down
- getting the pillars down quickly / close together to minimize adds
- getting the adds killed w/o people getting gibbed

Second run through is the same as the first (except 3-4 protectors is the goal). So as you get that stuff figured out, you go from high % wipes to low % wipes fairly quickly.

You do have some low dps. You may not be able to reach some of those bench-marks w/o a few people stepping it up a bit.

[Rivellana]

Thanks for the few comments so far. I appreciate all help anyone can give.

I forgot to mention we had two boomkins last night...one who is regularly boomkin and the one (at the bottom of the dps charts last night) who is usually resto. The overall dps is also something I'm concerned about not being able to kill the boss in our current gear because for lack of people being on we've had to sometimes take people who might be more ungeared casuals than others or who have never been amazing players to begin with.

I'm not sure how large the affect is on my logs that I'm the one keeping them and when we've separated the raid into two halves to kill the pillars I don't think my combat log is recording the other healer's healing or the dps from the players on the opposite side.

We did try the first boss in HoF a couple of weeks ago before attempting Elegon and got our butts promptly kicked.

[Deleted]

Only thing I can say that might help is that your tank who's tanking Elegon either need to blow one of their cooldowns or get an external cooldown when the big adds die. Add AoE + Breath +high stacks = dead tank and in my experience the breath and adds dying happens at most a couple of second apart.

Anti magic zone is awesome for that (and can also be placed on the other tank if needed), so tell your dk tank to stop using purgatory and get AMZ for starters.
And let them check their cd usage , it looks rather low from the quick scan i did on the log.
Imo for the DK , it's also beter to take death pact since it's a massive heal on demand which is much beter as the crappy hot conversion gives (ie you know you got 10 stacks, 45% hp and breath in a sec ? convertion ain;t going to help much while using deathpact is back up to full hp basicly) , Anti magic zone ofc, and i glyph icebound fort so i can use that more , the reduced duration isn't a point here when used on the breath, AMS is awsome on magic breathing dragons as usual so have him glyph that aswell, glyph of D&D is usefull for slowing the small adds aswell so might want to pick that up to.

[Aktec]

We did try the first boss in HoF a couple of weeks ago before attempting Elegon and got our butts promptly kicked.

You should try it again, the damage from force and verve which was the difficult bit got nerfed by a lot, so as long as you dont die on the discs its a rly easy fight

[ThePants999]

There are a series of progression steps you go through on this fight.
- figuring out how to keep tanks alive during protector deaths
- allocating dps to get through the first phase with just 2 protectors / properly transitioning with no protectors up
- allocating dps to get 3-4 (preferably 4) waves of charges down
- getting the pillars down quickly / close together to minimize adds
- getting the adds killed w/o people getting gibbed

This is very true, and a helpful way to couch your thinking on this fight. We went through almost precisely this set of steps (kinda skipped the first, I'm disc so we coped quite easily with protector deaths).

The last one was the one we struggled with most. We ended up with
- each tank trying to grab vaguely half of them - one tank having boss + some sparks, and the other boss having a protector + some sparks, was much easier to deal with than one tank having all the sparks
- DPS trying to down a few before the floor came back, in conjunction with threat dump CDs to avoid taking aggro, though obviously moving back into the inner ring as soon as the floor returns to down them faster

[Deja Thoris]

I think to progress on this fight you need to divide it into phases

- 100% to 85% your aim is to have 2 protectors. First tank starts tanking the boss and 2nd takes boss when protector spawns. First tank then takes protector. This allows lower overall stacks. When the protectors casts annihalation the tank on the boss needs to use a big CD, as others have said, that timed with the breath hurts.
- Transition, kill 4 sparks, this gives 5 stacks
- Pillars, give each dps the pillar that corresponds to the spark he killed. And this bit is probably the overlooked secret to the fight. Control dps so pillars die at the same time (or close to it) The boss gets a haste buff for every pillar that dies. If you kill 5 of them and wait 10 seconds to kill the last and he will be pooping adds out faster than you can blink. The adds hit like trucks, blow CD's and / or kite them. We found the best was to take them to the middle to aoe them. The DK can do his iceblock thingy on them to buy you a few seconds of less damage.
- 85% to 50% - aim for 3 protectors tho its doable with 4
- Transitions are the same again
50% - 0% Stack up on bosses arse, BL, pot and nuke. Blow everything you have in this phase but co-ordinate it. You don't want to use every raid CD you have in the first 5 seconds. Plan them out.

Imo while there is a "dps check" element to this fight it really comes down to maximising time on the boss (during draw power and so on) and smooth transitions. When we progressed the these were the biggest hinderances. Imo you should perfect the transitions, then you can at least see the fight thru to enrage which is a good step in progress.

As a last thought. The tanks need to "understand" the fight well so they can plan CD's. Tanking isn't just about getting hit in the face by a boss.

Good luck.

[Rivellana]

There are a series of progression steps you go through on this fight.
- figuring out how to keep tanks alive during protector deaths
- allocating dps to get through the first phase with just 2 protectors / properly transitioning with no protectors up
- allocating dps to get 3-4 (preferably 4) waves of charges down
- getting the pillars down quickly / close together to minimize adds
- getting the adds killed w/o people getting gibbed

I was just talking to our raid leader a bit and the bolded from your list are what we're still having the biggest issues with. The protector deaths have fallen to a sometimes we can keep the tanks alive through them and sometimes we can't sort of problem. I know we still need work on that, but the DK tank is using her cooldowns as far as I know, while the monk tank is undergeared and barely has any cooldowns to use. I'm in the same boat where the only external cooldown I can provide is life cocoon which frankly, is crap.

We determined it worked best for us downing pillars when both groups worked from the back of the room to the front (where the console is) but I'm still not sure they're going down fast enough for us to minimize the adds. We had a few attempts where I died to adds because they all aggro'd to my heals and stuck to me like glue before we managed to get everyone who could slow putting slows on them and now we can get them grouped and onto the platform but they still manage to gib some people on some attempts even then.

[AgilityTank]

Regarding the pillars - you want them all to die at the same time. The achievement 'Straight Six' should nudge you in the right direction. (aka you'll get the achiev if you've done it right). Simply have each person dps the pillar that their draw power ad is trying to get to. Whoever the weakest dps is should have the tank helping them.

As others have stated, get the pillars down at the same time and make sure people use aggro-reduction and kiting on the little ghosts. They hit really hard but can be avoided by circle strafing. We all run around in front of the console when the floor comes back. Silly but it works. Misdirect/tricks/etc are good here too.

[Deja Thoris]

We determined it worked best for us downing pillars when both groups worked from the back of the room to the front (where the console is) but I'm still not sure they're going down fast enough for us to minimize the adds .

Read what I said in my previous post. Working from one side and killing pillars one by one is about the worst thing you can do. I even bolded the aim. Read it and re-read it. "They need to die at the same time" We bring them all down to 20% and call on comms as each one hits 20%. Then we kill them. This is far more efficient than splitting the riad in 2 and working clockwise or something. The first way avoids giving the boss a 20% haste buff for each pillar that dies.

[Rivellana]

Read what I said in my previous post. Working from one side and killing pillars one by one is about the worst thing you can do. I even bolded the aim. Read it and re-read it. "They need to die at the same time" We bring them all down to 20% and call on comms as each one hits 20%. Then we kill them. This is far more efficient than splitting the riad in 2 and working clockwise or something. The first way avoids giving the boss a 20% haste buff for each pillar that dies.

Oh yes, I apologize I was in the process of typing out my response to the other poster when your previous post was put up and I missed seeing it until I had already posted a response, so I didn't get a chance to read it until after.

Thank you guys, all. Revelation!

I think if we work on that as a pillar strategy and get our monk tank fixed up a bit we might stand a chance now.

[Deleted]

I was just talking to our raid leader a bit and the bolded from your list are what we're still having the biggest issues with. The protector deaths have fallen to a sometimes we can keep the tanks alive through them and sometimes we can't sort of problem. I know we still need work on that, but the DK tank is using her cooldowns as far as I know, while the monk tank is undergeared and barely has any cooldowns to use. I'm in the same boat where the only external cooldown I can provide is life cocoon which frankly, is crap.

An other option if it's the other tank dying: what i did on my dk tank when our other tank couldn't handle it was basicly solo tank the boss and the 'off tank' only taunted the boss so i could reset stacks and i would take it right back when i did, i had plenty of cooldowns to handle all breaths (note likely there will be 1 overlapping adds where the other tank will have to tank the boss)

[Odina]

We were having the same issue with adds... adds where what was killign our raid over and over... we would get the sparks down we wanted we would get all of phase 1 perfect then BAM shitons of adds dead. Even using Banner and SW and piercing howl to kite I was getting killed due to the shear amount we had.

The way we fixed it and finally got the kill last night was we assigned one person on each side to call out then there side was ready. So what we do is dps the hell out of boss... when floor will drop we run out but try and keep buff as long as possible to get some extra dmg on teh pylons. Then everyone stops at 20% untill both sides call out that we are good to go. This means all pylons will be at 20% and everyone burns them down... if it takes dps more than 10 secs to down a pylon you have a different issue but this way they shoudl all go down within seconds of eachother. The basically reduced our adds by 80%! i'm not even exagerating on our final kill attempt one transition like 4 adds popped up... compare that to the 12+ adds we previsouly got all the time and it was a fast transition from wipe fest to kill!

[announced]

judging from the first 8 or 10 wipes your dps is way too low to down elegon.. u should have people doing a min of around 60-70k spending most of their time inside the circle.. and your mage is frost.. which is kinda odd for elegon since combustion double dips on increased dmg taken) which is really important for elegon.. people really need to step up their game.. make sure to use the 50% dmg increase whenever u can.. its also useful for killing the mini adds as well as big ones (long as u remember to run out).
as noted above purgatory is nice but so is AMZ in this situation the group absorb is a godsend for explosions and general raidwide damage. also if you have a pally tank make sure hes hit capped and expt capped and using seal of insight+battle healer glyph.

[Rivellana]

Thanks for the additional comments. I'm kind of excited to try it next week with what I consider a brand new strategy and see if it works.

Being so casual we're still working on our mechanics quite a bit. The dps check was something I was concerned about, especially using the resto druid as a boomkin as he seemed to be struggling to learn it but it's likely we'll have some change in raid setup for our future attempts. I think our mage who is usually frost was trying out fire for the fight this week and found it to be better for Elegon but at some point he might have switched back...I'm not competely sure. I'll mention it. :P

There's been some consideration of swapping our fury warrior to protection since our monk tank is currently so undergeared. I'd love to do more dps on Elegon myself to help out but finding myself running out of mana very quickly while 2 healing the fight even though I generally don't have mana issues (probably something I need to check out on monk forums).

Thanks again.

[Tinsoul]

I was just talking to our raid leader a bit and the bolded from your list are what we're still having the biggest issues with. The protector deaths have fallen to a sometimes we can keep the tanks alive through them and sometimes we can't sort of problem. I know we still need work on that, but the DK tank is using her cooldowns as far as I know, while the monk tank is undergeared and barely has any cooldowns to use. I'm in the same boat where the only external cooldown I can provide is life cocoon which frankly, is crap.

We determined it worked best for us downing pillars when both groups worked from the back of the room to the front (where the console is) but I'm still not sure they're going down fast enough for us to minimize the adds. We had a few attempts where I died to adds because they all aggro'd to my heals and stuck to me like glue before we managed to get everyone who could slow putting slows on them and now we can get them grouped and onto the platform but they still manage to gib some people on some attempts even then.

I did see that druid at the bottom of the dps. Assumed that was a tank. Apologies. I am a little surprised you feel comfortable pushing the phases and the charges with some of those dps numbers. You must be doing a really good job of "covering".

We looked at the raid CDs at our disposal, and found we had enough to use 3 each protector death. 1 recovery CD, 1 reduction CD, and 1 tank CD. Ie., tranq + spirit shell + tank, devo aura + ancestral guidance + tank, etc.. We also have 1 healer spam the tank as the protector dies. Breath + melee swing + protector death can all line up.

As others have said, bringing the pillars down at the same time will reduce the number of adds. It takes a little practice, but you can really notice when you start to get it right.

If you are getting too many adds, then it's hard to clean them up w/o someone dieing. For us, mocking banner was awesome. I'm not sure what other tanks have that might fulfill that role. A key note for us was avoiding CCing the adds until they got to the rally point. When they are CC'd, they reset aggro. So when the CC breaks, they will aggro proximity or a healer. Our resto druid was usually the one to pay the price when someone had to use CC early.

[Deleted]

There's been some consideration of swapping our fury warrior to protection since our monk tank is currently so undergeared. I'd love to do more dps on Elegon myself to help out but finding myself running out of mana very quickly while 2 healing the fight even though I generally don't have mana issues (probably something I need to check out on monk forums).

Thanks again.

Changing the tank might help a little bit. We've downed Elegon normally with our warrior and druid tanks who seem to be capable to hold a while on their own and don't need healing 100% of the time. We had a monk tank stepping in for one week and he was genuinely like wet tissuepaper... Both me and our other healer were forced to spam him in order to keep him alive, which in return drained all our mana and that didn't turn out well. It might've been his gear that was the issue, but changing around a bit with the tanks might give a bit of an easier time for healers.

[Odina]

Being so casual we're still working on our mechanics quite a bit.

There's been some consideration of swapping our fury warrior to protection since our monk tank is currently so undergeared.

Don't even think about the casual part... we only raid 4 hours a week this boss is deff doable with a casual raid sched you just need to have a couple like yourself that are looking at how to improove on off time > just throwing wipes at it untill you figure it out


As for you fury war going prot... if he is lacking prot gear then you will be in the same ball park as with the monk! This is one of the fights that I get the crap kicked out of me the most when it comes to dmg taken however you cannot forgo hit and exp for more HP/survivability as active mitigation needs those threat stats or you will gib yourself even faster. You don't need allot of gear (im only 474 I level) but you do need the proper gear /forges/and gemming if you are just meeting the gear check.

Here is a link to our WOL if you or the war have any questions that you think I may be able to help with please PM me and it would be my pleasure to help.... especially since so many here helped me improove to get the Ele kill when I was in a rut!
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...?s=4697&e=5216