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  1. #1
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Whining Regarding T2 Weapons And Their Acquisition

    I am seeing a trend pertinent to this - more and more players (generally 1550 players with 20 arenas played) seem to be demanding that T2 weapons be made either baseline (with the same conquest point requirement) or have their rating requirement significantly lowered to 2k or lower. This is a HORRIBLE idea as T2 weapons are one of the few things remaining that reward PvPers for their achievements in the arena or the battlefield.

    I wanted to get the thoughts of the community on this despite this, however. How do you feel regarding T2 weapons and why? I think they should stay the way they are as 2200 is easily acquirable by anyone if they put their mind to it. The team inflation in 5.1 will only make them even easier to get.

  2. #2
    When you said T2, I assumed you meant blackwing lair, and was like wut?

    I believe you're referring to elite pvp weapons.

    I'll tell you why they won't remove the requirements. "PVE"

    In TBC, PVP weapons (until around s4) had no requirements. at the beginning of each season we'd get our hands on next tier's caster weapon, which in a progression with few shortcuts setting, was absolutely a boon and pretty non-optional for guilds still progressing into what was then T5 and T6.

  3. #3
    I don't mind it, I never did. I was an avid arena player in season 2 (2400 in 5s and 2200+ in 3s) and I was above 2k in RBGs for a while two seasons ago so I personally feel that T2 should go to the dedicated teams and not the teams or players who just play to cap for the week.

    I don't arena anymore but I'm trying to get back into RBGs, and I wouldn't want weapons to be a joke to obtain. Even concerning the t1 weapons I like how they actually require some time to obtain and you can't just trade VP for conquest anymore.

    I don't mind it in the least, keep the T2 weapons at a high rating IMO. If they want it, they will have to put in the work to get it.

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    When you said T2, I assumed you meant blackwing lair, and was like wut?

    I believe you're referring to elite pvp weapons.

    I'll tell you why they won't remove the requirements. "PVE"

    In TBC, PVP weapons (until around s4) had no requirements. at the beginning of each season we'd get our hands on next tier's caster weapon, which in a progression with few shortcuts setting, was absolutely a boon and pretty non-optional for guilds still progressing into what was then T5 and T6.
    That can't happen now though with the difference in ilvls. A PvP t1 weapon is worse than an LFR weapon for PvE but better than a normal mode PvE weapon for PvP due to PvP power.

    Also, high ranked players have plenty of stuff for prestige. When rated play as a whole is suffering and the best players are the ones coming up with the idea for reducing rating requirement for t2 then you know it's a valid opinion and one that even Blizzard is considering. It'll have a lot more arena activity when players will find that t2 weapons are a much more accessible goal.

    I'd personally argue though that leaving them 2200 rated but adding rating requirements on t1 weapons as well as some of the main pieces would have more people playing for rating instead of just for points but that might also push away even more players than it already does.
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  5. #5
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    I just despise players who think they should have access to the best gear for the least effort/skill. I realize that arena/PvP (rated) participation as a whole needs to be increased somehow, but handing out T2 weapons is not how it should be done despite what Tosan might think (and it's not what Blizzard has said it'll do after the PvP blog post.)

    Adding a rating requirement to the main pieces would be a great idea. Companion pets, tabards, etc, would be great as well.

  6. #6
    Outdated system. They should just remove t2 and add more _VISUAL_ and visual only upgrades. Bring back Gladiator Tabards and make another visual upgrade what's more than half assed recolour available at ~2.3k-2.4k.

  7. #7
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friyn View Post
    Outdated system. They should just remove t2 and add more _VISUAL_ and visual only upgrades. Bring back Gladiator Tabards and make another visual upgrade what's more than half assed recolour available at ~2.3k-2.4k.
    No, the T2 stat upgrade is important. In WoW, better players are always rewarded with better gear. It should not be changed, let alone just changed in PvP. If you are skilled enough to earn the T2 weapons, you deserve to keep the stat upgrade. It's not outdated, it's just a good system.

    They do need to add in tabards/other rewards, however.

  8. #8
    They should make it easier to obtain or just replace it with other things. PvP should be more about skill and competition on equal footing.

  9. #9
    Why use PvP weapons? The PvE ones are about 8% stronger. Just do some PvE. Everyone can do that.

  10. #10
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Why use PvP weapons? The PvE ones are about 8% stronger. Just do some PvE. Everyone can do that.
    For casters, PvP T2 is stronger than heroic PvE weapons that are BiS.

    For melee, PvE BiS heroic PvE weapons are slightly better than PvP T2.

    That is fact.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Kals's Avatar
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    T2 weapons have had 2200 req for as long as they've been out, I have no problem with this. Just because Johnny plays his ~15 wins a week to get "free epicz" doesn't mean he's entitled to one of the few things that designates you as a player with at least some skill or at least gameplay adaptation for those of you who will undoubtedly say something along the lines of "Lol fotm BM hunters".

    I would like a return of tabards and something along the line of challenge mode gearsets for players with exceptional skill, hitting Y+ rating, or X amount of games played at an MMR exceeding Y (some battlegroups are even harder to actually get 24 on due to lack of high rated players), where Y is obviously the rating chosen by Blizzard, preferably something like 23-2400+.

  12. #12
    In PvE, there's not much imbalance to be added with lower req 390 weapons. You would still need some manner of gating mechanism, of course- you wouldn't just want them on the vendors for conquest, but merely adding arenas / RBGs won in a season, or max conquest, would serve as well as a min requirement that was more generous.

    Reg MV weapons are 489, LFR MV weapons are 476. Other raid weapons are 496, and other LFR weapons are 483. For pve purposes only, you would be ok as long as aquiring a 490 weapon was harder than any LFR, and LFR is a joke.

    The weapons serve as a pretty important carrot, however, towards players playing and improving. The rating inflation was what I was looking forward to- I've been 2200 plenty of times, but this season won't be one of them without help or buffs (rogue main).

  13. #13
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    In PvE, there's not much imbalance to be added with lower req 390 weapons. You would still need some manner of gating mechanism, of course- you wouldn't just want them on the vendors for conquest, but merely adding arenas / RBGs won in a season, or max conquest, would serve as well as a min requirement that was more generous.

    Reg MV weapons are 489, LFR MV weapons are 476. Other raid weapons are 496, and other LFR weapons are 483. For pve purposes only, you would be ok as long as aquiring a 490 weapon was harder than any LFR, and LFR is a joke.

    The weapons serve as a pretty important carrot, however, towards players playing and improving. The rating inflation was what I was looking forward to- I've been 2200 plenty of times, but this season won't be one of them without help or buffs (rogue main).
    It's funny you speak regarding the rating inflation, because this is the first season I've been to 2200+ (granted, I began PvPing actively since early s11) despite the deflation.

    I don't think the weapons should be a guarantee. A minimum amount of RBGs/arenas/etc played would guarantee them to everyone and everything eventually. That's not how it should work.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    For casters, PvP T2 is stronger than heroic PvE weapons that are BiS.

    For melee, PvE BiS heroic PvE weapons are slightly better than PvP T2.

    That is fact.
    unlike DWTR, fangs of the father and to a lesser extent shadowmourne, heroic weapons are not easily accessible to casual players.

    the system is fine, better or more dedicated players are rewarded with better gear, but casual players still have access to T1 weapons with out any significant commitment.
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  15. #15
    My issue with it is simply why cant people get to 2.2k...

    Im not being funny, im not a great pvper, i hold my own, but im not great. and ive hit 2.2k in rbgs this season already. with more losses then wins! (and no, I didnt wintrade)
    and even better, its a rogue! one of the weaker classes.

    pvp is not hard by any means.

  16. #16
    Typical thinking by someone who thinks he's a true PvPer... No REAL, I and repeat, REAL and SKILLED PvPer gives a damn about t2 weapons. The difference between a 2200 rated player and a 1500 one is not tier 2 weapon, it's SKILL... A 1500 player could play in s15 gear and the 2200 player could play in s12 and still win...

    People who are able to get 2200 and more, Gladiator or R1 dont play for weapons, bro...

    There's actually a thread on AJ about this, no one that posted in that thread thinks like this, in fact like everyone agrees that t2 weapons should be removed from game and the only 2200 rewards should be VISUAL ones/titles/mounts/anything that won't INCREASE the GAP between a good player and a bad player...

    Only thing I see here is fear... Fear that a 2k player (let's assume that t2 weapons will require 2k rating instead of 2.2k) with t2 weapons will wipe the floor with you... If you are that good and skilled and think so LESS about "generally 1550 players with 20 arenas played" or 2k ones, you shouldn't even worry about t2 weapons since SKILL > GEAR/CLASS/SPEC any day, any hour...

  17. #17
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
    Typical thinking by someone who thinks he's a true PvPer... No REAL, I and repeat, REAL and SKILLED PvPer gives a damn about t2 weapons. The difference between a 2200 rated player and a 1500 one is not tier 2 weapon, it's SKILL... A 1500 player could play in s15 gear and the 2200 player could play in s12 and still win...

    People who are able to get 2200 and more, Gladiator or R1 dont play for weapons, bro...

    There's actually a thread on AJ about this, no one that posted in that thread thinks like this, in fact like everyone agrees that t2 weapons should be removed from game and the only 2200 rewards should be VISUAL ones/titles/mounts/anything that won't INCREASE the GAP between a good player and a bad player...

    Only thing I see here is fear... Fear that a 2k player (let's assume that t2 weapons will require 2k rating instead of 2.2k) with t2 weapons will wipe the floor with you... If you are that good and skilled and think so LESS about "generally 1550 players with 20 arenas played" or 2k ones, you shouldn't even worry about t2 weapons since SKILL > GEAR/CLASS/SPEC any day, any hour...

    A noble sentiment, but this is WoW, and at the end of the day, in WoW, better players get rewarded with better gear. That's how it should be, period.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friyn View Post
    Outdated system. They should just remove t2 and add more _VISUAL_ and visual only upgrades. Bring back Gladiator Tabards and make another visual upgrade what's more than half assed recolour available at ~2.3k-2.4k.
    Nowadays "outdated" means it isn't faceroll to get. Nothing about it is outdated. That's just a convenient argument.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 01:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
    Typical thinking by someone who thinks he's a true PvPer... No REAL, I and repeat, REAL and SKILLED PvPer gives a damn about t2 weapons. The difference between a 2200 rated player and a 1500 one is not tier 2 weapon, it's SKILL... A 1500 player could play in s15 gear and the 2200 player could play in s12 and still win...

    People who are able to get 2200 and more, Gladiator or R1 dont play for weapons, bro...

    There's actually a thread on AJ about this, no one that posted in that thread thinks like this, in fact like everyone agrees that t2 weapons should be removed from game and the only 2200 rewards should be VISUAL ones/titles/mounts/anything that won't INCREASE the GAP between a good player and a bad player...

    Only thing I see here is fear... Fear that a 2k player (let's assume that t2 weapons will require 2k rating instead of 2.2k) with t2 weapons will wipe the floor with you... If you are that good and skilled and think so LESS about "generally 1550 players with 20 arenas played" or 2k ones, you shouldn't even worry about t2 weapons since SKILL > GEAR/CLASS/SPEC any day, any hour...
    Nice try dude. Do you really believe your lies? People who claim in pve or pvp that they don't care about gear are full of shit. It's a reward. And as we all know. Everyone in here, gear causes alot of drama. Why? Because people in mmo's are loot whores. Doesn't look like he's the only one in fear.

    So if it's "SKILL>GEAR/CLASS/SPEC any hour, any day" Then it doesn't matter if t2 weps remain the same now does it?
    Last edited by Seezer; 2012-11-23 at 02:05 AM.
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  19. #19
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    Nowadays "outdated" means it isn't faceroll to get. Nothing about it is outdated. That's just a convenient argument.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 01:54 AM ----------

    Nice try dude. Do you really believe your lies? People who claim in pve or pvp that they don't care about gear are full of shit. It's a reward. And as we all know. Everyone in here, gear causes alot of drama. Why? Because people in mmo's are loot whores. Doesn't look like he's the only one in fear.

    So if it's "SKILL>GEAR/CLASS/SPEC any hour, any day" Then it doesn't matter if t2 weps remain the same now does it?

    LOL what an eloquent rebuttal!

  20. #20
    This is coming from a 2600 player and I have 3 toons with t2, i think they should be baseline because in a competitive game you should beat an opponent because of skill not gear

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