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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Should do some reading on why rape is so under reported. The AMA actually did a study on it that I can dig up later.
    I have read a lot about it, actually. None of the reasons stated that I read were that they were going to be legally punished for their report.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  2. #202
    Pandaren Monk Auloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by undercovergnome View Post
    I wonder how guilty she feels, and how long it has played on her mind - I imagine that would leave you really fucked up - she will need therapy
    She is in rehab for alcohol and drug addiction. She said this false accusation was the reason.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    I have read a lot about it, actually. None of the reasons stated that I read were that they were going to be legally punished for their report.
    That's not the point. The fear of not being taken seriously is a big deal and a very common concern. Surely you can see how that ties into it right? You tell women that false reports are a crime, which is correct. They worry their claims won't be taken seriously. They worry that if they're not taken seriously the authorities will think they're lying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  4. #204
    You know they say karma is a bitch. I hope, for her sake, she doesn't find out the hard way...

  5. #205
    So an 11 year old didn't tell the truth under oath ?

    Surprise ?

    There's a reason that the word of younger children is discounted in court by default, and almost always requires significant supporting evidence. Its easy for them to be pressured into saying what they think one of the adults involved wants to hear, especially in a divorced situation where she's especially fearful of upsetting someone in authority.

    Let's get to the real problem... why was her father convicted if all it took to get him released was reversing the testimony of a child that should have little legal weight in the first place ?

  6. #206
    Legendary! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    I have read a lot about it, actually. None of the reasons stated that I read were that they were going to be legally punished for their report.
    as i said before, thats because no one seriously advocates punishment. except on internet forums.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    That's not the point. The fear of not being taken seriously is a big deal and a very common concern. Surely you can see how that ties into it right? You tell women that false reports are a crime, which is correct. They worry their claims won't be taken seriously. They worry that if they're not taken seriously the authorities will think they're lying.
    And I don't see that worry connecting into the the worry of being legally punished. I have seen no evidence of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    as i said before, thats because no one seriously advocates punishment. except on internet forums.
    If nobody currently advocates punishment as you say, then you have no basis on which to claim that it would become a significant factor.
    Last edited by Bergtau; 2012-11-23 at 08:29 AM.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  8. #208
    I don't see what remains to be proven. Rape victims fear not being taken seriously. Consequences for not being taken seriously make that worse. Such as the afor mentioned "rape false accusators" crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  9. #209
    Legendary! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    And I don't see that worry connecting into the the worry of being legally punished. I have seen no evidence of it.
    people want to *make* it a worry.

  10. #210
    Dreadlord Lovecrafts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Can someone please fucking explain how this isn't a perversion of the justice system? She didn't just send a man to jail... the man was her father.

    Daughter's rape lie recanted; Kalama father freed after 9 years

    They're not pursuing criminal charges (of any sort) because "it might discourage real victims from coming forward".

    Doesn't this just say that there are no repercussions for false allegations of rape?
    Isn't it great? A woman can decide after she's had sex whether or not it's rape. Was it a one night stand and she wants to get back at the guy? File a false rape charge! Have a few drinks and take someone home that you regret/are embarrassed about? File a false rape charge!! Boyfriend dump you? Guess what she can do!

    Rape is the only crime where the man is considered 'guilty until proven innocent', such a life-runing experience when a vindictive woman decides to pull the r-card. Even more amazing, if they do get caught in their lie, they get off scott free! What other crime can you falsely report and not get in any trouble over?

  11. #211
    Legendary! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovecrafts View Post
    Isn't it great? A woman can decide after she's had sex whether or not it's rape. Was it a one night stand and she wants to get back at the guy? File a false rape charge! Have a few drinks and take someone home that you regret/are embarrassed about? File a false rape charge!! Boyfriend dump you? Guess what she can do!

    Rape is the only crime where the man is considered 'guilty until proven innocent', such a life-runing experience when a vindictive woman decides to pull the r-card. Even more amazing, if they do get caught in their lie, they get off scott free! What other crime can you falsely report and not get in any trouble over?
    gotta watch out for those slutty 11 yr olds...

  12. #212
    Warchief Letmesleep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auloria View Post
    The fear of not being believed is also extremely common. From that you can make the hypothesis that victims would be afraid of not being believed, and then thrown in jail, for making a report, out of a misunderstanding of the law.
    While I hate getting involved in one of Laize's gender threads which really just happen to be outward expressions of something he's dealing with internally, I felt this was important enough to discuss. I have a lot of sympathy for victims of sexual assault; my mother was molested as a child and she carried baggage from it well into her 40s. With that said, it's up to the victim to pursue justice for themselves. The possibility that someone won't speak up for themselves out of ignorance is not an excuse for refusing to punish a false accusation that lead to 9 unlawful years in prison.

    I mean what's the flip side of doing nothing? It's saying "if you make a false accusation, you can get away with it". To me that's just as bad as someone not speaking up because they don't understand the law. In all honesty, I'm not concerned about "making examples" or "preventing this or that". What the kid did was wrong, and it deserves SOME sort of punishment. There is no justice if a person can be put away under false charges and no one pays for it.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    people want to *make* it a worry.
    Who? The only people that I have seen other people wanting to be worried are those who would falsely accuse another of rape. I have not seen anybody saying they want rape victims to be worried about being convicted of falsely accusing somebody of rape.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivis View Post
    Would be quite ironic if she'd really get raped now, and nobody would believe her anymore.
    I see where you're going with this...
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  15. #215
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Because "why would she lie?" is a question asked pretty much all the time and Americans in general still feel women are virtuous wilting flowers who can do no wrong.

    Many women's groups are even trying to get proving rape cases dropped from "Beyond reasonable doubt" to "preponderance of evidence" which is usually used in grand juries to determine if there should be a trial in the first place.
    Sorry, but the Why would she lie, have no place in a justice system if it's mean't to be credible! A persons freedom and possibly life is at risk, at bare minimum they should have done a medical examination of this girl.
    Last edited by Banzhe; 2012-11-23 at 08:36 AM.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    I see where you're going with this...
    Mmyes, I do believe he is going to track her down...

    Quote Originally Posted by Banzhe View Post
    Sorry, but the Why would she lie, have no place in a justice system if it's mean't to be credible!
    That was kinda his point.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Given the problems with rape being unreported I can see what they're talking about.
    I agree. Sexual harasment and rape usually go unreported in eastern countries.

    Im also biased from being annoyed by the other topic where male posters sided with the jerk that sued his wife for being ugly. So nyah.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Alixie View Post
    I agree. Sexual harasment and rape usually go unreported in eastern countries.

    Im also biased from being annoyed by the other topic where male posters sided with the jerk that sued his wife for being ugly. So nyah.
    I think that's just hilarious that people think that they have the right to know everybody about their significant other's past.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  19. #219
    Legendary! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    Who? The only people that I have seen other people wanting to be worried are those who would falsely accuse another of rape. I have not seen anybody saying they want rape victims to be worried about being convicted of falsely accusing somebody of rape.
    and as we already discussed in this thread, rape evidence is often difficult to obtain, much less it being a matter of whos word to trust more.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    and as we already discussed in this thread, rape evidence is often difficult to obtain, much less it being a matter of whos word to trust more.
    Which has absolutely no bearing on what we are currently discussing.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

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