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  1. #421
    I stopped reading at page 8. I don't think they should punish the woman who lied. In addition to the statute of limitations, she was 11 years old and had no way of being culpable for her actions. I do think the man deserves major civil recompense for false imprisonment - I lay the blame at the feet of the courts for convicting him on unreliable evidence.

    If a woman lies about rape and is an adult, or old enough to be tried as an adult, there should be a trial, and if there is enough evidence to prove that she lied, she should go to prison. I think there is an outcome possible (or even likely) wherein neither party would be convicted: There is not "beyond a shadow of a doubt" evidence to convict the man, nor is there enough evidence to convict the woman of lying.

    As far as fear of reporting rapes, the fear goes far beyond not being sure you'll be believed. A raped person whose victimization is made public faces a lot of potential social problem that are completely outside the justice system. And that goes for both genders, though the social problems manifest in different ways.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrenos View Post
    I stopped reading at page 8. I don't think they should punish the woman who lied.
    I disagree. There needs to be punishment for this sort of thing, to stop women doing it carefree just because they dislike someone or think its funny. Age shouldn't matter on whether you get punished or not, it should just effect the nature of the punishment.

    She confessed as an adult, after several years being an adult. She should know right or wrong, so she needs to be shown her actions aren't without consequence.

    But should it be jail? No, there's too much of that already. She needs to be fined, and the money needs to be given to her victim. And if she can't pay up the required amount over the required time, she gets community service for a charity/organisation of his choice. Fair's fair, I think.

  3. #423
    I agree that you can't really hold someone accountable for something they did when they were 11. However, there are some actions that should be taken:

    1) For every year after she turned 18 that she didn't "fess up," she should be required to serve some sort of punishment for purposefully and willingly allowing that man to stay in prison for a false accusation made by her. I would say at least 2 years of prison time would be appropriate.

    2) The falsely accused man should be awarded by the state at least $3 million, paid over the course of 20 years with a full retiremant plan included. Yes, that's a lot of money it seems like! But let's face it. The state made a huge mistake convicting this man. This man will forever have a stigma around him that hinders him from getting a job, starting a family, etc.. His life is, for the most part, ruined. And while money cannot fill the void, it certainly can help him live comfortably for the rest of his days. It also teaches the state a valuable lesson in the importance of pursuing righteous and correct decisions. Furthermore, the prosecutor and judge should be put under job probation and given a strict review, should they still be currently practicing. Though it is the prosecutor's job to go for a conviction, above all it is their job to uphold justice and this prosecutor failed to do so.

    I think these are fairly reasonable ways to approach the issue.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    I disagree. There needs to be punishment for this sort of thing, to stop women doing it carefree just because they dislike someone or think its funny. Age shouldn't matter on whether you get punished or not, it should just effect the nature of the punishment.

    She confessed as an adult, after several years being an adult. She should know right or wrong, so she needs to be shown her actions aren't without consequence.

    But should it be jail? No, there's too much of that already. She needs to be fined, and the money needs to be given to her victim. And if she can't pay up the required amount over the required time, she gets community service for a charity/organisation of his choice. Fair's fair, I think.
    The issue I take with your argument is that she lied when she was 11, when she was incapable of being rational. Punishing her now will just tell anyone in the same situation that they should never tell the truth and instead should just let the falsely accused person rot in jail lest they risk punishment. You are in effect advocating punishing her for confessing.

    I think the situation would be different had it been an adult who had lied about being raped.

  5. #425
    I think a lot of this can be solved in civil court. The man should sue her for all that she's worth, and I hope to God he gets it. I also hope it serves as a lesson to those who would lie about such a serious matter, and end up getting a man's life ruined.

    The state definitely needs to be held accountable too. You hear a lot about corrupt police officers, and we complain when they are not held accountable when they should be. The judge and prosecutor in this case, especially the prosecutor, need to be held accountable too.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrenos View Post
    The issue I take with your argument is that she lied when she was 11, when she was incapable of being rational. Punishing her now will just tell anyone in the same situation that they should never tell the truth and instead should just let the falsely accused person rot in jail lest they risk punishment. You are in effect advocating punishing her for confessing.

    I think the situation would be different had it been an adult who had lied about being raped.
    Ah, so if an 11 year old commits murder, that's okay too?

    Yes, I took it to the next level. But its the same principle, where do you draw the line? If you've commited a crime you need to be punished for it, otherwise it encourages more crime. Age doesn't matter, claiming to 'not know better' doesn't matter. Mentally handicapped people don't get away with crimes, even if they have the minds of young children - they just have adjusted sentences in accordance with their status.

    At the VERY least she needs a criminal record. Getting away with it scott free is an insult to not only her father, but also other victims both of false accusations and rape. Its an affront to the concept of justice if it can be twisted like that, and then be defended by people!

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    You know if this discussion opens with a strawman I'm really not interested in talking about it with you.
    SO you just pop in, flame bait, and carry on? That's a pretty lame move. Ah well, just report for flame baiting I guess and move on.

    OT: this right here, this is what's fucking wrong with the world. But no, it doesn't stop there. Not if it was me. If it was me, I'd go after the government, we're talking at least 30 million AT LEAST, and there had better be some cops, court employees, a judge, and a few lawyers all losing their jobs, their pensions, and their licence to do the job.
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  8. #428
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    SO you just pop in, flame bait, and carry on? That's a pretty lame move. Ah well, just report for flame baiting I guess and move on.

    OT: this right here, this is what's fucking wrong with the world. But no, it doesn't stop there. Not if it was me. If it was me, I'd go after the government, we're talking at least 30 million AT LEAST, and there had better be some cops, court employees, a judge, and a few lawyers all losing their jobs, their pensions, and their licence to do the job.
    And what exactly is your basis for the prosecution of the legal system?
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  9. #429
    There's still a slight chance that she is only lying now.
    this is my signature... jealous?

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Why the hell would you charge the DA?
    Malicious prosecution comes to mind.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 06:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    See, I support the rule of law. You apparently don't.
    Actually, you dont support the rule of law... the rule of law says that the offenders get prosecuted, the innocent dont... you on the other hand gave the daughter a free pass and basically said 'fuck you' to the innocent father that sat rotting in a prison with a false conviction of child rapist hanging on him.

    The daughter and the DA put him there... you have no desire or intent to punish either of the offenders. Meaning, you do NOT support the rule of law.

    And here is another reason to charge her... criminals shouldn't profit from their crimes, thus, if the father writes a book, gets a movie deal, or wins a lawsuit against the state then none of that money should trickle down to the daughter, since it was her action that put him in jail.
    Last edited by Haarvald; 2012-11-24 at 12:49 AM.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathiest View Post
    There's still a slight chance that she is only lying now.
    Yeah... okay. And what would the logic be behind lying to get her attacker out of jail?

  12. #432
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haarvald View Post
    Malicious prosecution comes to mind.
    No.

    "Criminal prosecuting attorneys and judges are protected from tort liability for malicious prosecution by doctrines of prosecutorial immunity and judicial immunity. Moreover, the mere filing of a complaint cannot constitute an abuse of process. The parties who have abused or misused the process, have gone beyond merely filing a lawsuit. The taking of an appeal, even a frivolous one, is not enough to constitute an abuse of process. The mere filing or maintenance of a lawsuit, even for an improper purpose, is not a proper basis for an abuse of process action."

    Not to mention that saying this case is one of malicious prosecution is pretty facetious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Yeah... okay. And what would the logic be behind lying to get her attacker out of jail?
    So she could accuse him again and get him thrown back in! Trolling the legal system is definitely in.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    No.

    "Criminal prosecuting attorneys and judges are protected from tort liability for malicious prosecution by doctrines of prosecutorial immunity and judicial immunity. Moreover, the mere filing of a complaint cannot constitute an abuse of process. The parties who have abused or misused the process, have gone beyond merely filing a lawsuit. The taking of an appeal, even a frivolous one, is not enough to constitute an abuse of process. The mere filing or maintenance of a lawsuit, even for an improper purpose, is not a proper basis for an abuse of process action."

    Not to mention that saying this case is one of malicious prosecution is pretty facetious.
    So you don't think anyone should be held accountable for this extreme miscarriage of justice? You think it's simply alright that the guy is out now?

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Haarvald View Post
    Actually, you dont support the rule of law... the rule of law says that the offenders get prosecuted, the innocent dont... you on the other hand gave the daughter a free pass and basically said 'fuck you' to the innocent father that sat rotting in a prison with a false conviction of child rapist hanging on him.

    The daughter and the DA put him there... you have no desire or intent to punish either of the offenders. Meaning, you do NOT support the rule of law.
    The statute of limitations is part of the law. Cut the warblegarhble.

  15. #435
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    So you don't think anyone should be held accountable for this extreme miscarriage of justice? You think it's simply alright that the guy is out now?
    If you want to rewrite the legal definition of malicious prosecution, than by all means, be my guest. Although I think that taking a hack at organizing the tax code would be a far more beneficial service.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodon View Post
    This isn't the first time something like this has happened and it won't be the last because the legal system in the USA that regard is terrible.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18266118

    Some people will no doubt recognise this case as already come around on this very forum, but I'm reposting this again as it's pertinent to this topic. I would say the chances of the father getting any kind of justice is low, considering what happened in the above case I linked.
    What in the fuck?! Let bygones be bygones because she didn't want to lose 1.5m the school gave her, so instead she ruins the life of a man. What a terrible bitch. On top of that she gets to keep the money and is she even facing charges?!
    Last edited by Themius; 2012-11-24 at 12:52 AM.

  17. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Yes it is. Her father was an adult. She was not. We don't treat minors who commit crimes the same as adults and nor should we.
    Wells, don't be twitificent, the fault really...it sits squarely on the shoulders of the people who convicted him wrongly, if they were doing their goddamn job with any scrap of professionalisim and collected, and provided this little thing called EVIDENCE?!?!?! but they didn't. They were wrong. And nine years of this human being's life are gone. How would YOU compensate him for that?

    Seriously, this child did wrong, and I can agree we don;t and should not treat minors the same, however, for minors, we generally use community hours, so nine years of community service tyvm, and if the mother is found to be coaching the child, off to jail for her, the judge, and legal types should be fired, fined, possibly jailed.

    The child....well, she's fucked for life anyhow. She falsely accused her dad of RAPE. AIN'T NOBODY ON THE FACE OF EARTH, gonna hang their ass out on the line and date her later in life, never mind marry. You can't trust a girl who falsely accused her Dad of rape can you? You know what? She's young, but she EARNED this. Some creatures are too stupid to procreate and pollute the gene pool. This is one of them.
    Life punishes in it's own way.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 04:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    And what exactly is your basis for the prosecution of the legal system?
    Precedent.
    /10char
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  18. #438
    That post was 20 pages ago. I'm really not going to re-argue 20 pages.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by stuck4cash View Post
    It's ok to go after the male but not the female.

    I see where you're coming from but his life is completely ruined, some could probably argue well beyond the trauma that a rape victim goes through.
    It depends entirely on the person affected and the circumstances. Try and prosecute the woman though and you'll be labelled a misogynist by some deluded person.

  20. #440
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post

    Precedent.
    /10char
    What an incredibly elucidative post. Not going to delve into what precedents exactly, or is this a one size fits all thing we're playing at here?
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

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