You can see one of them about ten feet away from where the picture of the Silver Covenant flag you posted to disprove one of his other points was taken. The WC3 manual also mentions them being used as battle steeds by the High Elves.
Everything else he said(including the rest of the bit about the unicorns) is insane gibberish, though.
Dath'Remar Sunstrider ain't an immortal and was not killed by demons. After a thousand years, it could be possible that he died due to old age.
There's really no canonical reason to say one way or another what Dath'remar or Anasterian would have done were they in Kael'thas position. The destruction wrought against Quel'thalas was unprecedented; with Anasterian witnessing it up close, obviously, since he fell under Frostmourne (theoretically, he was there helping hold Arthas down for us). I think Northem may be mistaking the once-Quel'dorei, now-Sin'dorei (one race with a change in political culture, no different than the French starting a new Republic) for Tolkien creations; Silvermoon is not Rivendell, and the elves that live there are not hyper-moral creatures who never do anything calculated or expeditious. To even consider it would be to forget exactly what their origins were. They aren't "evil", but they are not the pillars of elven virtue and there's really no reason to think that Kael'thas thought of solutions to their problems much different than those whose history he was carrying would have.
BTW, as far as I can tell, there is nothing but pure fanon going on with anything involving the word "unicorn".
Yes, it is Dath'remar you pay tribute to in the starting zone there.
It would be all kinds of trope and cliche, but having a reappearance of a lost Sunstrider heir wouldn't be a bad little storyline. The Blood Elves need to take the next step, and if that's with Lor'themar, great, but if not, get him out of the way -- they need to start a new monarchy and reinstate the Convocation. That's the big missing symbolic step in their rebuilding. Bringing in a Sunstrider heir who wants the throne could get Theron off his butt, etc, and we end up with Lor'themar Theron as King, with Halduron, Rommath, and Liadrin as part of the Convocation (WoWWiki says it was as many as seven elven lords, so there would be seats to go around, especially if the High Elves ever felt like repatriating instead of sitting around Stormwind and Dalaran whining).
I think a monarchy would go against their new direction, personally. Monarchy failed them, led them astray and nearly cost them their souls. I can't see them looking to a single ruler any more, especially a nobody jumping on the coattails of a fully tarnished family name. I also don't see if working out with their place in the Horde or any new direction they choose once Garrosh's horde falls.It would be all kinds of trope and cliche, but having a reappearance of a lost Sunstrider heir wouldn't be a bad little storyline. The Blood Elves need to take the next step, and if that's with Lor'themar, great, but if not, get him out of the way -- they need to start a new monarchy and reinstate the Convocation. That's the big missing symbolic step in their rebuilding.
I think Monarchy is fine for Blood Elves but they need a Council along with it. Like the Klaxxi oh and punt Rommath of course.
Plus, their basic horse doesn't have a horn, and I always figured the original quest to upgrade it was just finding the materials for and making improved armor for the original hornless horse.
I did find it odd way back when I first started WoW to see a Unicorn head rising out of the sea. One of my earliest toons was (and still is) a Night Elf, and though I knew nothing of Warcraft's lore at the time I sure didn't recall any of the Teldrassil questgivers mentioning unicorns, or even regular horses. And yet it seemed any sunked Elvish ship in Darkshore would have those sails. Sort of the same reason why the Band of the Unicorn always stuck out to me, too; unicorns aren't a creature that's ever really addressed in-game, so it was hard to tell if they were supposed to be mythical, like in the real world, or if they were yet another fantasy made real, like the chimaeras and manti-wyverns. :3
I was happy to see the Quel'dorei Steed though, as both a mount collector and general model enthusiast. It was nice to get a genuinely new model, since I never did RaF. I do wish it wasn't so...well, crappy, though. Especially compared to the gorgeous Sunreaver Hawkstrider, with its modern textures and bright colors, the Steed is just so old and busted.
If it is just an armour upgrade they are having it resemble this Quel'dorei steed. Part of the old quest had you free an ancient equine spirit in Dire Maul. While the spirit model isn't much, its hardly a stretch of extrapolation to say the Quel'dorei steed is a different species from the regular Horse, and is larger and tougher, with a horn; no "crazy Azerothian evolution" to make up for it, as it already exists and is far less crazy than current stuff existing in lore anyways (troll/night elf lolwut for example).Much like you'd put spikes on your own armor if you wanted to dissuade people from hitting you, or give you something to gore them with; it just seemed like basic armor design, not some crazy Azerothian evolution. Plus, their basic horse doesn't have a horn, and I always figured the original quest to upgrade it was just finding the materials for and making improved armor for the original hornless horse.
It's also related to the Elves in symbolism and as a mount of the High Elves, so perhaps that is the connection? It's all just speculation really, but not mindless.
Yeah he died. It also says it on WoWpedia. Kind of unfortunate though
Summary of basic ideas:
- Dath'Remar and Anasterian were High Elves, so nowadays they would disown all Blood Elves, as Kael'thas sullied his own lineage and that of his entire race (except the Quel'dorei that still remain).
- The Silver Unicorn has been the symbol of the High Elves since they arrived to Quel'Thalas and only the genuine Quel'dorei, loyal to their customs, still proudly hold the Silver Unicorn emblem versus the Golden Phoenix, symbol of the Sin’dorei.
I love how some of you believe in possession of the absolute truth, and speak with a superiority that touches the fanaticism. And best of all is that those who feel superior are flagrant members of the Horde... two of a kind, I'm not surprised. Even I'm glad to see as some of you stay speechless because you know not even what answer me, limiting only to denigrating me.
Maybe your dissertations serve to the other members of the Horde and some impressionable people, but for me and other authentic members of the Alliance your words are worthless. You cannot convince me of anything at all from the moment you think you are masters of the Warcraft lore; my friends, learn a valuable lesson applicable to all aspects of life: there are no absolute truths.
But I'm glad so deeply by seeing how you strive vigorously to try to refute me and leave me as a fool, because that certainly indicates that my ideas bother you, and therefore that there may be some truth in my comments. If something bothers members of the Horde, for sure is that what bothers them is good or positive for the Alliance, and if it's good for the Alliance then fully justify my actions, giving me strength to add other possible points of view, showing that nobody is aware of the absolute truth, not even myself obviously.
Now, ignoring your attempts to discredit me, I could rebut the accusations that you consider your unquestioned axioms, but then, I went into your "and you even more" game, which am not going to do because I'm not at your height. Instead I would like to clarify some ideas that have been said trying to deny my comments, which are:
- The Quel'dorei have always been dependent on magic since they were expelled from Kalimdor, but not addicted per se. They were spoiled with the powerful arcane energy that emanated from the Sunwell for millennia, and when it was destroyed, they suffered the consequences of their acquired addiction.
However, while some were carried away by their thirst for magic and did horrible things to access it (the Blood Elves), there were other more responsible that, through meditation and abstaining, learned to control their thirst for magic, getting rid of it forever (the High Elves).
With the restoration of the Sunwell (now with holy energy rather than arcane), the Sin'dorei have done nothing more than prove that their dependence on magic is intact, while the Quel'dorei only pilgrimage there to show respect to their ancestral lands and not because they need the Sunwell power, because they are no longer dependent on magic (though they can be tempted and succumb to a "item of seductive energy", like the one that was brought to Quel'Lithien by the Blood Elves).
- I’m not going into the issue of physical and psychological differences between the High Elves and Blood Elves here, but still you cannot deny that the blood elves are effeminate and are easily swayed by their more libidinous and darker desires, i.e., they have no self-control, unlike the High Elves, among many other moral, traditional and mental differences. Their physical differences may be slight, but their psychological differences are completely overwhelming.
- Despite what Blizzard says, the demonic corruption of blood elves is irreversibly bound to their DNA, so that their descendants will always be irreversibly contaminated with no possible cure (many tried to reverse the corruption, as Valeera Sanguinar, Varian's friend, but not even with the most powerful magic of Azeroth they were able to do it).
Unlike the orcs, who only drank demon blood (and even then it affected their skin color and produced them a lot of withdrawal symptoms), the blood elves absorbed fel energy directly, not just by their digestive system if not by each of its cells.
To understand it: while the orcs just drank the drug, the blood elves were injected with it, so that the level of corruption is more subtle but more internal. It is easier that arrives the day when the orcs cease to be green, that arrives the day when the blood elves stop being physically and psychologically contaminated with fel magic.
- Since the High Elves came to the Eastern Kingdoms, were an isolated people, proud of their autarky and oblivious to other races. But everything changed when they came into conflict with the trolls, only then, the High Elves were forced to open up to the world, stop being so self-centered and consider that they were not alone on the continent.
That was the origin of humans and elves alliance, an alliance of convenience at first, but later proved to be a source of understanding and mutual benefit for both races to this day.
Although much of the Council of Silvermoon always remained critical of the relationship with humans (there are dissidents everywhere), the High Elves in general and Anasterian in particular proved on more than one occasion that they were more than simple allies of the human, but rather friends, specifically Anasterian personally was a friend of the Menethil family for generations.
Officially friendly relations between the two races were reflected in a series of treaties, as the Council of Silvermoon demanded it, but unofficially the High Elves and humans had more to gain together than separately: both parties so knew that.
In fact, before the death of Anasterian already there was great concern, since was envisaged that the heir (Kael'thas) would not be as conciliatory as his father and would not meet the expectations of being a good king; was well known that Kael'thas communed with the most radical ideas of the Council of Silvermoon, as unfortunately later was shown.
Currently these opposite ways of thinking as were represented in the Council of Silvermoon still continue now: the more critical and self-centered Quel'dorei are the Blood Elves, while the High Elves still are relying on the Alliance and remain faithful to their ancient customs..
- When the Blood Elves decided to follow to Kael'thas and stop being Quel'dorei, they destroyed completely their way of life and sullied their ancestors by becoming the followers of a madman.
Those brave enough to follow their ancient customs and remain being Quel'dorei are those that deserve respect. Such was the responsibility of the High Elves who even had to leave their homes with such to remain what they always were.
The Blood Elves are mere traitors: traitors to their customs, to their allies and what is worse, traitors to themselves. Moreover, all this treachery is hidden behind their crimson color, under the guise of honoring the fallen ... If they truly want to honor their fallen they would not ally with zombies, trolls and orcs ... what a shame! Their ancestors would turn over in their graves!
- The fact that the High Elves that remain have the Golden Phoenix as a symbol in the game, has the same explanation of why the High Elves in the game have the same models as the Blood Elves but with blue lenses or why the High Elves have the voices of the Night Elves, i.e. due to laziness of Blizzard. All these things are mere placeholders, as it is cheaper and faster change the color of something rather than completely redesign it. I hope Blizzard someday be good enough to give the High Elves their own voices, models and symbols because they already have them (although in the game they do not come shown).
- That's right, at the game currently there are no unicorns, and the existing "bicorns" can be easily explained.
The "bicorns" first appeared with the Paladin's Chargers, who were normal horses but with an armor that emulated two horns on the horse's head to inflict more damage when charging. Obviously Blizzard had to create the "bicorn" model in exclusive for the Paladin's Chargers (which had nothing to do with the unicorns).
Later came the zebras, which as being a promotion mount had not to be very attached to the lore. Obviously zebras were just the model of the Paladin's Chargers with a different texture for fulfill their new goal: to attract more customers (also the horned zebras had nothing to do with the unicorns).
And finally came the time when unicorns should appear: the entry into action of the High Elves. But what happened? What always happens with the High Elves: no budget or creative development for them. As I mentioned in the previous point, everything about the High Elves are mere placeholders, so their mounts would not be less: they have the models of the famous Paladin's Chargers and the horned zebras but with another texture, as, of what Blizzard already had done, was what looked more like unicorns.
In short, the "Quel'dorei steeds" should be unicorns in the game but however they use a placeholder model.
I doubt Anasterian wouldn't have acted so different in order to save his people. He did after all allied himself with humans, even though he held a strong distaste for humanity, and consented only to sending a token force to assist them as the Second War reached its climax.
Draining magic from small mana-bearing vermin is a far cry from draining magic from demons.
The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel’Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs’ skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way.
Lothar's family had aided the high elves in fighting the Troll Wars, and so King Anasterian reluctantly agreed to provide a small number of soldiers and spellcasters who would fight alongside the Alliance.
In the aftermath of the war, the high elves began to doubt the value of the Alliance. Humanity seemed to need the high elves, but had little to offer in return, especially now that a large portion of Alliance resources was allotted toward maintaining the internment camps.
At last Anasterian rescinded the high elves' allegiance to the Alliance. He stated that the humans' poor leadership had been directly responsible for the burned forests in the borderlands of Quel'Thalas. King Terenas Menethil argued that nothing of Quel'Thalas would have survived if not for the hundreds of valiant humans who gave their lives to defend it. Despite his attempts at reestablishing diplomatic relations, however, the elves opted to remain independent of the crumbling Alliance. Their departure triggered the additional secession of the Gilneas and Stromgarde nations.
The blood elves did what was necessary, Rommaths teaching are the reason there is still a Quel'thalas left, the high elves were simply too stubborn to accept that sometimes dire measures are necessary in order for them to survive. The high elves are a minority that desperately clings to ancient traditions, sometimes change is necessary and if they can't accept that they are fools.
Last edited by Combatbulter; 2012-11-24 at 07:58 PM.
He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.
For the Quel'dorei! Glory to the Alliance! The banner of the silver unicorn will wave again in Quel'Thalas!
P.S. Come back soon Alleria! please!
He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.