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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    this Gc i want to punch him in the face so badly hell i would pay money for it
    No you wouldn't. That's just your internet passive/aggressiveness coming out. You know it would never happen, and you know that you're safe behind your computer. Stop talking shit. And if you really get raged up over a video game, then it's time to go outside.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 10:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    You really think Rogues are fine? Right now I think you have a brain tumor. Let's hope both of our opinions change soon.
    Your opinion would kill me. Mine would mean your video game character is slightly underpowered. Hmmm.
    Source: Greg Street's (Ghostcrawler's) twitter

    So Ghostcrawler is aware and of the opinion that we should be underpowered.

    Also, he seems to have sorta dodged the question? Edit: Even if the question was very poorly worded.
    How would you like it if people just made up quotes for you? If you're going to quote somebody, you don't quote what you think they said, what you wanted them to say, or whatever your biased mind dreams up.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer MasterHamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    Because the class forums are treated differently?
    What we get through these Twitter responses is no different than the "official developer responses" we're so often presented with. Yes, they differ in size and depth of debate, but the content is mostly the same; Politically correct nonsense that says a lot without actually answering anything. Elaborated responses are mostly rare, usually not elaborate to a satisfactory degree(I.e. often lack the actual answers to the actual questions), and often end openly with a non-answer.
    "We're looking into it..."
    "We're experimenting with..."
    "We might do..."

    That's been my experience at least, so far. Haven't seen one "satisfactory" dev post on rogues post-Cataclysm.

    NOTE: I'm not defending the twisting of the dev's words, but I'm most definitely not a fan of the way they present arguments and argue in their favor(When they actually do so...). Most notably, the "We disagree." Incident during the MOP beta, in which were bluntly told that our opinions are invalid/unwanted/unnecessary, and all communication between the rogue community and the devs just came to a complete halt ever since, despite several capped threads with concerned rogues.
    All you want to hear is "We're buffing you", anything else is uninteresting, or as you put it, non-answer posts. (and wonder who'd be the first to whine if they went silent)
    That's not how it works.

    Atleast appreciate that Blizzard posts. GC takes from his personal time off to answer these retarded tweets and people complain and quote mine him to make a point.
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  3. #23
    I love Ghostcrawler's ability to avoid 99% of the questions that people throw at him. It's quite ridiculous that he can weave his way around anything people ask. I mean really, if you look at his answers for the majority of his questions he won't give you an answer, he'll give you either a smart ass reply, something completely off-topic from the original question or he'll answer the question with a question.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer MasterHamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitorii View Post
    I love Ghostcrawler's ability to avoid 99% of the questions that people throw at him. It's quite ridiculous that he can weave his way around anything people ask. I mean really, if you look at his answers for the majority of his questions he won't give you an answer, he'll give you either a smart ass reply, something completely off-topic from the original question or he'll answer the question with a question.
    It's almost as if he's answering personally and not from an authorative standpoint.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    All you want to hear is "We're buffing you", anything else is uninteresting, or as you put it, non-answer posts. (and wonder who'd be the first to whine if they went silent)
    That's not how it works.

    Atleast appreciate that Blizzard posts. GC takes from his personal time off to answer these retarded tweets and people complain and quote mine him to make a point.
    That's a rather unfounded ad-hominem, but alas, I'll play along. I operate quite well on this childish level of yours;
    By the same standards, I assume you're the kind of person who'd continue to fellate Blizzard's massive, corporate hard-on, even if they'd institute mass-genocide. You're "that" guy, aren't you? The guy who consistently backs brands/corporations/celebrities as if they were family, for some ungodly twisted reason, in the hopes that one day, one wonderful day, they just might recognize you as MasterHamster! The person who so valiantly defended them on MMOC all those years ago!

    Stop me when it seems like I'm reading too much into it.

    On a serious note;
    No, what I meant with "non-answers" is not "O' Lord, another day without a 500% buff to Backstab... How will I get by."
    I refer to answers that are too vague or just unfounded and thus do not tell us anything. Going back to "We disagree..." post, we weren't told why they disagreed, to what degree they did so, and so on... They disagreed, end of story, and no responses were granted us past that.
    On the removal of Cold Blood; "It made crit less valuable." Well, that can't possibly be the sole reason, can it?! Never mind the fact that it's a retarded reason.
    On rogue mobility; "We're looking into improving rogue mobility conservatively..." Prime example of the politically correct statements that tell us nothing. Nothing specific was said, nothing was promised at all, nothing was therefore done, and because of all the "nothing's" we can't pull them up on their words.

    No, I'm not really appreciating their responses, I'd prefer them to be consistent in their decisions; either choose to openly converse with the community(keyword OPENLY) or just don't bother. If you're not going to listen, or let the community listen to you, then what's the point to begin with? I enjoy a good joke as much as anyone else, but I'd appreciate some actual answers over these vague retorts we get every now and then.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer MasterHamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    That's a rather unfounded ad-hominem, but alas, I'll play along. I operate quite well on this childish level of yours;
    By the same standards, I assume you're the kind of person who'd continue to fellate Blizzard's massive, corporate hard-on, even if they'd institute mass-genocide. You're "that" guy, aren't you? The guy who consistently backs brands/corporations/celebrities as if they were family, for some ungodly twisted reason, in the hopes that one day, one wonderful day, they just might recognize you as MasterHamster! The person who so valiantly defended them on MMOC all those years ago!
    Bet you felt badass using "ad hominem" in an argument. Wonder if you know what it means.
    No, I'm not a completely clueless defender. I'm a student of game design, 3D modelling and animation, that's what I want to devote my work to. I'm also very fascinated by game design and balancing when it comes to classes. That's it. Feel free to discredit me. Whenever some random players wants to take a bite at the balancing "scene" I laugh. It's not as freaking easy as to change X to Y and watch how it plays out, but that's apparently how players imagine it.

    On a serious note;
    No, what I meant with "non-answers" is not "O' Lord, another day without a 500% buff to Backstab... How will I get by."
    I refer to answers that are too vague or just unfounded and thus do not tell us anything. Going back to "We disagree..." post, we weren't told why they disagreed, to what degree they did so, and so on... They disagreed, end of story, and no responses were granted us past that.
    On the removal of Cold Blood; "It made crit less valuable." Well, that can't possibly be the sole reason, can it?! Never mind the fact that it's a retarded reason.
    On rogue mobility; "We're looking into improving rogue mobility conservatively..." Prime example of the politically correct statements that tell us nothing. Nothing specific was said, nothing was promised at all, nothing was therefore done, and because of all the "nothing's" we can't pull them up on their words.
    All I see is your disagreement with Blizzards reasoning about Cold Blood and crit. They never presented the down-to-the-roots data. Even if they did, there'd be endless debate about what is and what isn't an issue.

    No, I'm not really appreciating their responses, I'd prefer them to be consistent in their decisions; either choose to openly converse with the community(keyword OPENLY) or just don't bother. If you're not going to listen, or let the community listen to you, then what's the point to begin with? I enjoy a good joke as much as anyone else, but I'd appreciate some actual answers over these vague retorts we get every now and then.
    Don't even pretend. You wouldn't be satisfied unless you saw buffs across the board. That's how people act. And no doubt how you act.
    Blizzard converge a lot of their reasoning, either through CM posts, Dev watercoolers or "official" news. But then again, no one gives a shit about these unless they promise buffs.

    I'd like to pretend like you presented anything new, but sadly I see nothing but someone who won't be satisfied unless GC personally /bows and promise sweeping buffs.

    You want anything to change? Post constructive feedback that might actually represent reality and they might actually listen.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2012-11-24 at 12:28 AM.
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  7. #27
    Shows how careful you have to be in GC's position. He probably didnt mean it but he did say rogues are "slightly underpowered".

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer MasterHamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attsey View Post
    Shows how careful you have to be in GC's position. He probably didnt mean it but he did say rogues are "slightly underpowered".
    He didn't even say it, the players did. As shown by the OP.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    He didn't even say it, the players did. As shown by the OP.
    There are none so blind that will not see.

    What part of "Mine would mean your video game character is slightly underpowered." are you having trouble with?

  10. #30
    *Walks in reads OP*
    *Turns around and walks away*
    "I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Bet you felt badass using "ad hominem" in an argument. Wonder if you know what it means.
    No, I'm not a completely clueless defender. I'm a student of game design, 3D modelling and animation, that's what I want to devote my work to. I'm also very fascinated by game design and balancing when it comes to classes. That's it. Feel free to discredit me. Whenever some random players wants to take a bite at the balancing "scene" I laugh. It's not as freaking easy as to change X to Y and watch how it plays out, but that's apparently how players imagine it.



    All I see is your disagreement with Blizzards reasoning about Cold Blood and crit. They never presented the down-to-the-roots data. Even if they did, there'd be endless debate about what is and what isn't an issue.



    Don't even pretend. You wouldn't be satisfied unless you saw buffs across the board. That's how people act. And no doubt how you act.
    Blizzard converge a lot of their reasoning, either through CM posts, Dev watercoolers or "official" news. But then again, no one gives a shit about these unless they promise buffs.

    I'd like to pretend like you presented anything new, but sadly I see nothing but someone who won't be satisfied unless GC personally /bows and promise sweeping buffs.

    You want anything to change? Post constructive feedback that might actually represent reality and they might actually listen.
    I disagree...

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Bet you felt badass using "ad hominem" in an argument. Wonder if you know what it means.
    No, I'm not a completely clueless defender. I'm a student of game design, 3D modelling and animation, that's what I want to devote my work to. I'm also very fascinated by game design and balancing when it comes to classes. That's it. Feel free to discredit me. Whenever some random players wants to take a bite at the balancing "scene" I laugh. It's not as freaking easy as to change X to Y and watch how it plays out, but that's apparently how players imagine it.
    No idea what it means. In fact, this is the first debate I've partaken in, ever. Go easy on me.
    I liked how you didn't deny the fellatio part though. That's classy.
    And yes... Yes, I did feel badass using said term.

    While I'm moving into unknown territory here, I'd say "changing X, Y, Z..." is half of what balancing is. In terms of raw numbers, at least. Adding so-and-so many % damage to a certain skill will improve a class' general output by so-and-so much. You have a point mechanically speaking, if you by "X,Y,Z" mean introducing additional skills, talents, and options; that is, indeed, something entirely different. But tuning damage isn't as complicated as you make it seem.

    All I see is your disagreement with Blizzards reasoning about Cold Blood and crit. They never presented the down-to-the-roots data. Even if they did, there'd be endless debate about what is and what isn't an issue.
    So, after all that you make my case for me. No matter the end result of releasing such info, they told us nothing. There you have it.

    Don't even pretend. You wouldn't be satisfied unless you saw buffs across the board. That's how people act. And no doubt how you act.
    Blizzard converge a lot of their reasoning, either through CM posts, Dev watercoolers or "official" news. But then again, no one gives a shit about these unless they promise buffs.
    Oh, you and your pretentious attitude! A circumstantial ad hominem attack doesn't grant your reasoning any additional support.
    And here I thought I knew myself better than anyone else...! How gravely mistaken I was.

    I happen to read through the majority of the blue posts, even when they're unrelated to me, my class, or my role in raids, just to keep an eye out on how the other classes are evolving. The majority of these posts, however, are seldom balance or class related, and are more often about general additions to the game. The latest interview(unless I'm mistaken) was mainly concerned with future patches and content, challenge modes, scenarios, and the consistent 25-man raid issue.

    That aside, I'm not one for buffs, really. I'm much more interested in mechanics. Numbers are a non-issue. They can always be fixed one way or another; be that via a hotfix, patch, or simple gearing. I'd much rather see some mechanical changes to our class than some negligible buff to some random ability, but that's an entirely different debate for another time.

    I'd like to pretend like you presented anything new, but sadly I see nothing but someone who won't be satisfied unless GC personally /bows and promise sweeping buffs.
    I'd like to pretend like you presented anything new, but sadly I see nothing but someone who won't be satisfied unless everyone personally /bows and promises to clean that corporate dick of Blizzard for all eternity.

    I can do this all day.

    You want anything to change? Post constructive feedback that might actually represent reality and they might actually listen.
    That's just naive, even for you.
    Someone(can't recall his name, nor that of the thread, unfortunately...) compiled ALL beta threads on rogues into a single thread on the beta forums; We're talking 100+ links to different threads, I recon, all of which had(at least) 10-50 pages worth of posts, all with suggestions, ideas, and concepts. Now, I put it to you, that among those THOUSANDS of posts at least ONE has to contain what even you might consider "constructive, realistic feedback".

    The thousand people before me failed; I'm not holding my breath, nor am I wasting my time trying to get the attention of people who clearly don't seek mine. I'd rather seethe in the corner of my room, while pondering why Honor Among Thieves still has the CP-on-crit requirement instead CP/2 seconds, why Assassination got no cooldown to take the place of Cold Blood, or why all 3 specs are essentially using the same rotational abilities.
    Rupture critting for 7k is the least of my worries...

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    You really think Rogues are fine? Right now I think you have a brain tumor. Let's hope both of our opinions change soon.
    Your opinion would kill me. Mine would mean your video game character is slightly underpowered. Hmmm.
    Source: Greg Street's (Ghostcrawler's) twitter

    So Ghostcrawler is aware and of the opinion that we should be underpowered.

    Also, he seems to have sorta dodged the question? Edit: Even if the question was very poorly worded.
    Reading comprehension wasn't your thing in school was it ?

  14. #34
    I'd just give up on trying to get a concrete response out of the blue/dev posters. Even if you manage to get a response, most of them will end with:

    "We will make the changes we think are right."
    "We really appreciate the feedback, but we design the game as we see fit."

    Why bother when they completely write off pages of constructive feedback with: "Yeah, I heard you but we do what we want."

    No, I'm not a completely clueless defender. I'm a student of game design, 3D modelling and animation, that's what I want to devote my work to. I'm also very fascinated by game design and balancing when it comes to classes. That's it. Feel free to discredit me.
    In other words, you defend Blizzard at all times because you want to work there.

    You aren't completely clueless. Just completely naive.

    And no, you will never work there.

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    He has a sense of humor, but his ability to dodge questions, or simply provide us with no actual information is, second to none.
    It's only second to your inability to understand information that you don't agree with. GC has gone way beyond his job requirements explaining design decisions and communicating with the community.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 10:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitorii View Post
    I love Ghostcrawler's ability to avoid 99% of the questions that people throw at him. It's quite ridiculous that he can weave his way around anything people ask. I mean really, if you look at his answers for the majority of his questions he won't give you an answer, he'll give you either a smart ass reply, something completely off-topic from the original question or he'll answer the question with a question.
    An answer that you don't like is still an answer.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    GC has gone way beyond his job requirements explaining design decisions and communicating with the community.
    Care to elaborate on which "design decisions" he explained to the community regarding rogues?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Guns View Post
    Care to elaborate on which "design decisions" he explained to the community regarding rogues?
    Forgive namelessone, he thought he was in the mage subforum.

    On topic regarding op.

    *woosh*

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    ie if Person 1 is wrong (that he has a tumour) then he would die
    if HE is wrong (that rogues are fine) then rogues would be slightly underpowered.
    Actually, if person 1 is wrong, then he *doesn't* have a tumor. The whole little exchange is muddled, but the commentary he's making is worthy. People treat death and malignant wishes and thoughts way too fucking lightly now-a-days. All you have to do is trawl LFG for a while while under-performing a little bit. You'll see what I mean.

  19. #39
    OP is probably trolling, but anyway...

    Rogues are really boring atm, especially after you played with monks.

    The only thing rogues got over monks is stealth, and even that ain't much fun in a raid.
    Tinker + Alchemist in a single class:
    Tank spec: robotics, steampunk hammers/chainsaws, grappling hooks and heavy machinery.
    Melee dps spec: doping yourself with chems and tossing vicious acids on the enemies.
    Ranged dps: rockets, lasers, TNT critters and explosives, shrink rays and sapper mines.
    Healing spec: chemical sprays, needles, exploding flasks and other chemical type abilities to heal.

  20. #40
    I cant be arsed to check but i bet his twitter profile was for his avatar name, people aint normaly this rude on twitter unless they have an agenda - possibly to publicly abusing a rep in a very open fashion in the hopes of appealing to a very large audience who are angry and want someone to like.

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