"Underpowered is fine"

[Garian]

That doesn't mean rogues should be overpowered, they should be viable. But yes, I agree that you shouldn't be punished for playing a rogue.

Rogues need to bring something unique to raids otherwise it's simply not efficient to bring them over a class that can perform two or three roles. Ranged DPS have always had an advantage over melee too since they don't have to worry about cleaves etc and can damage while moving.

Now this might not matter to average players, but average players emulate success as well sooner or later. They will do what's most efficient as well in order to have an easier time.

Why make a rogue for PVE when you can do just as much DPS as a rogue on top of tank or heal with a second spec?

[Mugajak]

Rogues need to bring something unique to raids otherwise it's simply not efficient to bring them over a class that can perform two or three roles. Ranged DPS have always had an advantage over melee too since they don't have to worry about cleaves etc and can damage while moving.

Now this might not matter to average players, but average players emulate success as well sooner or later. They will do what's most efficient as well in order to have an easier time.

Why make a rogue for PVE when you can do just as much DPS as a rogue on top of tank or heal with a second spec?

Because you have limited need of tanks and healers. I can't think of any encounters that can use more than say, 3 tanks (you could argue 4 for Mel'jarak if they wore DPS gear and went nuts with the vengeances?), or 3/7 healers by encounter for 10/25, and once you have those, you've got a few spots left for pure DPS. Or many spots, for 25s. Why bring a rogue? Well, if you need the buffs/debuffs, you need better cleave, better sustained single-target... leather wearers to spread through the raid?

I fully agree rogues NEED more in the way of CDs, but there's no reason NOT to bring a rogue because it isn't a hybrid. My warlock is feeling plenty loved as I top charts on every fight, bring health stones, the occasional portal, and do upwards of 5k HPS on myself (10). The reason you wouldn't bring a rogue isn't that they can't become a tank or DPS (oh hey symbiosis!), but that other DPS bring better CDs. The night we had a Spriest with symbiosis and a feral with HotW saved for healing, the entire healing side of any encounter became a joke; 3 extra healing CDs just provided way too much flexibility we didn't have before. My rogue can't bring that.

Note: I think it's both an issue that rogues DON'T have any raid CDs, and that other classes have that POWERFUL of a raid CD.

[Cybran]

He has a sense of humor, but his ability to dodge questions, or simply provide us with no actual information is, second to none.

Tell me about it. He dodged every single question of mine he replied to. I don't see a point of his twitter when he just uses it to show trolls/rude comments as a "Look what i deal with. I am right and my critics are insane, trust me"

[Garian]

Because you have limited need of tanks and healers. I can't think of any encounters that can use more than say, 3 tanks (you could argue 4 for Mel'jarak if they wore DPS gear and went nuts with the vengeances?), or 3/7 healers by encounter for 10/25, and once you have those, you've got a few spots left for pure DPS. Or many spots, for 25s. Why bring a rogue? Well, if you need the buffs/debuffs, you need better cleave, better sustained single-target... leather wearers to spread through the raid?

I fully agree rogues NEED more in the way of CDs, but there's no reason NOT to bring a rogue because it isn't a hybrid. My warlock is feeling plenty loved as I top charts on every fight, bring health stones, the occasional portal, and do upwards of 5k HPS on myself (10). The reason you wouldn't bring a rogue isn't that they can't become a tank or DPS (oh hey symbiosis!), but that other DPS bring better CDs. The night we had a Spriest with symbiosis and a feral with HotW saved for healing, the entire healing side of any encounter became a joke; 3 extra healing CDs just provided way too much flexibility we didn't have before. My rogue can't bring that.

Note: I think it's both an issue that rogues DON'T have any raid CDs, and that other classes have that POWERFUL of a raid CD.

There is still far less incentive to even make a rogue because you can just make a hybrid and be just as good at DPS or even better while having two or three roles.

They need to bring something unique to raids or they will slowly go extinct, especially now that they are useless in PVP.

Blizz create the problem, then sell the solution. They are master puppeteers who know how to pull everyone's strings from behind the scenes.

[Lazuli]

Rogue is a dead class, Street is a fucking retard, what's new?

[therayeffect]

Right now Rogues are a bit underpowered. Sims should always be some order of Rogue/Mage/Warlock/Hunter because that's all we bring. Right now Affliction locks and mages are pretty good. Rogues are 10 to 15% below them and hunters are so far down that I'm going to politely not post their numbers. I'm assuming that these numbers don't include the recent upgrades to items you can get with valor though so we'll see but as of this moment we are definitely moderately underpowered. What's new though. Blizz won't ever release their numbers so we don't know if we'll actually be good come the later tier. Odds are we will be good in the later tiers but I want to be good in every tier as should every pure dps class.

[Budi]

I'm cool with GC saying we are OK. I think its also fair with the overall concensus that rogues are not fine that he explains and extrapolates his idea of "fine". I mean obviously the guy sees rogues as being at worst slightly underpowered. How is he drawing this conclusion? Is it representation? Is he just basing this on raid damage numbers? Just wish the guy wouldn't dismiss the class so easily. It doesn't help that GC has had biases towards actively managing some classes as opposed to others.