View Poll Results: Should mob tagging be removed?

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  • Yes

    76 31.40%
  • No

    86 35.54%
  • It should be changed, but not fully removed

    80 33.06%

Thread: Mob tagging

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  1. #81
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    I'm pretty nothing has changed about tagging, you need to do damage to tag a mob - what they did change was making dots tick on the initial hit, I'm fairly confident that the way it worked in TBC is the same as it is now, the first to damage a mob gets the tag.
    They changed it near the end of BC so that any hostile action (debuffing, taunting, whatever) would tag the mob, instead of only dealing damage. Thus, placing a dot on a mob (since casting a dot is a hostile action, not just the dot's damage) would tag the mob.

  2. #82
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm buying that

  3. #83
    OP and all proponents:

    Slacker and leeches in BGs. Slackers and leeches in Raids. And now you want to bring that into the questing experience as well? No thank you. You're a fool if you don't understand and accept that there are many, many players out there that will game such a change to the fullest possible extent.

    How does it affect me you ask? It insults my sensibilities. I don't need any more reason to dislike it.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxtorph View Post
    OP and all proponents:

    Slacker and leeches in BGs. Slackers and leeches in Raids. And now you want to bring that into the questing experience as well? No thank you. You're a fool if you don't understand and accept that there are many, many players out there that will game such a change to the fullest possible extent.

    How does it affect me you ask? It insults my sensibilities. I don't need any more reason to dislike it.
    Fair enough... but you do realize that's not an argument, right? Personal opinion doesn't count as an argument in favor for or against something. It's fine to have an opinion, but your opinion does nothing to change mine, because there's nothing to it except "I don't like it".

    I think mob tagging is obsolete because it actively encourages players to view each other as competition rather than potential allies.... and if they did something even slightly creative like "when you use a hostile action against a mob, that mob becomes tagged for your faction, and anyone from your faction that does damage to that mob gets full xp/loot", it would encourage players of the same faction to work together while still encouraging cross-faction competition.

    The only argument I've seen in favor of mob tagging staying in is that some loot was designed around a specific drop rate, and the system of everyone getting full loot would not play nicely with the relative rarity of certain items. Other than that, it's a lot of people who think that there will be a lot of people who do nothing but leech (which seems logical, but I never really saw that happen in GW2... the closest people came was only helping with the last little bit of a mob I was fighting and still getting credit, but then I did that to others on occasion as well.)

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I just dot up a few mobs and yawn them to death. How is that not zerging?!
    When there are 100 people dotting up all the mobs just to get credit and everyone is doing which is what will happen with no mob tag rule it will be a zergfest. Not just you dotting 7-10 mobs 100 people pulling the whole zone while just running through it and aoe looting from every corpse for 0 effort. Its a terrible mechanic.

  6. #86
    Have you been playing the same game as the rest of us? Quest items drops from kills are awarded to each party members. The only quest items that aren't are those you pick up from the environment. Also people who claim all GW2 drops are personal and each person get their own loot, bullshit. You roll on all loot just like wow except for huge world events kinda like wows Sha event but way better. Also you can't just leech those either. Quality of loot is based on your contribution in each phases.

    First week of GW2 there was a ranger who did nothing but run around tapping every single mob that others were fighting with a single arrow and move on. He basically out lvled. Thnx to GW2 downscaling mechanic he was able to stay in whatever zone that had the most player and continue lvling of their kills and was ofcouse the first lvl 80 on the server. WoW doesn't need this, it already has enough way to abuse "clever use of game mechanics". No need to another obvious one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    When there are 100 people dotting up all the mobs just to get credit and everyone is doing which is what will happen with no mob tag rule it will be a zergfest. Not just you dotting 7-10 mobs 100 people pulling the whole zone while just running through it and aoe looting from every corpse for 0 effort. Its a terrible mechanic.
    I think it will take a lot more than getting rid of mob tagging to get 100 people at any one time interested in doing dailies.

  8. #88
    Pandaren Monk Slummish's Avatar
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    I'm just happy that quest-target mobs are mostly shared these days...

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Fair enough... but you do realize that's not an argument, right? Personal opinion doesn't count as an argument in favor for or against something. It's fine to have an opinion, but your opinion does nothing to change mine, because there's nothing to it except "I don't like it".
    First, I'm not trying to change your opinion. I don't care if it changes. I don't get all worked up over you not agreeing with me.

    Second, I guess I have to make the argument explicit for you so here it is: We do not need another mechanic that allows the lazy portion of the player base to get carried through on the efforts others. We do not need yet another game mechanic that Blizz needs to police. And they will have to police it. Any mechanic that can be exploited needs to be policed.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxtorph View Post
    First, I'm not trying to change your opinion. I don't care if it changes. I don't get all worked up over you not agreeing with me.

    Second, I guess I have to make the argument explicit for you so here it is: We do not need another mechanic that allows the lazy portion of the player base to get carried through on the efforts others. We do not need yet another game mechanic that Blizz needs to police. And they will have to police it. Any mechanic that can be exploited needs to be policed.
    Why would it need policing? And how could it be exploited? Someone helps kill a mob, the mob dies quicker, everyone gets credit for kill there is nothing that can be exploited.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Actually what made me think of that was exactly the elemental plateau as well and dotters complaining that people were stealing their mobs.

    I'm pretty nothing has changed about tagging, you need to do damage to tag a mob - what they did change was making dots tick on the initial hit, I'm fairly confident that the way it worked in TBC is the same as it is now, the first to damage a mob gets the tag.

    I'm not saying that it wasn't different in vanilla but I can't recall that it ever was killing blow, I started playing sometime before the Maraudon patch.
    when the game first launched it worked on the killing blow, caused loads of problems a few patched later they brought in the tagging due to people kill stealing, it's a long time ago so it's not the easiest thing to remember exact info, but I also remember a system where the person who did the most damage got the loot, that was possibly after the killing blow as it made it a lot harder to kill steal, but it did still happen then they went to tagging.

    but as said the shared tags in the daily zones show the exact reason these tags are needed as every single mob included in the dailies has shared tags and it is quite often used by people to take loot from mobs they they basically hit once, the fact that this is mostly crap on the daily mobs make this a bit less annoying but can you imagine if this was the case on the likes of world bosses and rares? you would have people walk up when the thing is nearly dead hit it and make sure they loot first to get the stuff. some form of tagging is needed or the slackers will just take everything while the normal players work for kills.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Why would it need policing? And how could it be exploited? Someone helps kill a mob, the mob dies quicker, everyone gets credit for kill there is nothing that can be exploited.
    You are either very naive or pretty damn altruistic or just acting dumb. In wow if I see someone killing a rare I will stand back and cheer them on and if they need help I will happily grant it, unless they are alliance in wich case I will kidney shot them just as the mob is doing its special.

    In GW2 I go out of my way to help others as I get nicely rewarded for it. However I'm am fully aware how people abuse the mechanic of that system. I have no problem with people helping me get reward and in wow unless the person has the same quest and in my group, they don't which sucks. However I have huge problem with people leeching of the "work" others and I put in. "Auto shotmy mob for 5k dmg" and moving on isn't helping, my overkill damage tend to be way higher. Pumping out damage with me till the mob is dead is helping. If you don't get the difference your moral education failed you somewhere along the line.

    Wow promotes competition and GW promotes cooperation, both valid models for an mmo. Atleast in wow I screw over leechers who try to tag things as I'm about to pull them, in GW they can wait till I've done damage to it then tap away and sit back and watch as I do all the work for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  13. #93
    They should have a FFA pvp enabled server. Would make mob tagging more exciting.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    You are either very naive or pretty damn altruistic or just acting dumb. In wow if I see someone killing a rare I will stand back and cheer them on and if they need help I will happily grant it, unless they are alliance in wich case I will kidney shot them just as the mob is doing its special.

    In GW2 I go out of my way to help others as I get nicely rewarded for it. However I'm am fully aware how people abuse the mechanic of that system. I have no problem with people helping me get reward and in wow unless the person has the same quest and in my group, they don't which sucks. However I have huge problem with people leeching of the "work" others and I put in. "Auto shotmy mob for 5k dmg" and moving on isn't helping, my overkill damage tend to be way higher. Pumping out damage with me till the mob is dead is helping. If you don't get the difference your moral education failed you somewhere along the line.

    Wow promotes competition and GW promotes cooperation, both valid models for an mmo. Atleast in wow I screw over leechers who try to tag things as I'm about to pull them, in GW they can wait till I've done damage to it then tap away and sit back and watch as I do all the work for them.
    If someone is killing a rare and you help them you both get credit and where applicable the achievement, everyone wins. Whilst loot could be a potential issue I'm sure it would be easy to implement a system where the person that originally tagged the mob only has access to it.

    I would suggest that if you see in game activities as "work" then it has gone far beyond the point where you can be objective and that really it is time you took a step back from it. But let's be honest this is the crux of the issue for many, they will quite happily argue against any system that allows the baddies, scrubs, mouth breathers, etc to have access to the same things as them regardless of whether or not the system might actually benefit them.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    If someone is killing a rare and you help them you both get credit and where applicable the achievement, everyone wins. Whilst loot could be a potential issue I'm sure it would be easy to implement a system where the person that originally tagged the mob only has access to it.

    I would suggest that if you see in game activities as "work" then it has gone far beyond the point where you can be objective and that really it is time you took a step back from it. But let's be honest this is the crux of the issue for many, they will quite happily argue against any system that allows the baddies, scrubs, mouth breathers, etc to have access to the same things as them regardless of whether or not the system might actually benefit them.
    People have no issue with others having what they have the problem they have is when people are rewarded the same for doing little to no work. If you want to go around killing mobs for other people you are more than welcome to allow them to tag it then kill till your little hearts content. If however you want equal work equal rewards you're going to have to rethink this whole tag share system. That is unless you're one of those people who want something for nothing.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    People have no issue with others having what they have the problem they have is when people are rewarded the same for doing little to no work. If you want to go around killing mobs for other people you are more than welcome to allow them to tag it then kill till your little hearts content. If however you want equal work equal rewards you're going to have to rethink this whole tag share system. That is unless you're one of those people who want something for nothing.
    It is a game! We play it for fun. If you feel that what you are doing is work then it is no longer a game and to be honest you'd be better off finding another pass time that actually rewards your work with money.

    Your whole post is typical of I don't want others to have the same as me attitude that some seem to have. If the mob tagging system was removed and someone attacks mob you've started to attack and they only do 10% damage to that mob, you have still killed it quicker than you would have done solo, the normal reaction would be great I've finished my dailies/quests quicker than I expected, what can I do with the extra time I now have. Instead we have people that will rush to forums to scream at anyone that will listen how some scrub attacked their mob.

  17. #97
    My problem with the current system is on non-quest rare mobs. 2 scenarios are common ...

    1. A person is clearing trash around a rare to be able to kill it without dying and someone comes along as you are nearing completion and tags the rare.
    2. You sit and wait, sometimes hours, for a rare to spawn, and someone shows up 10 mins (or less) before the spawn and grabs the rare.

    Both situations happen all too often and reward people who are not doing the work or putting in the time. I'd just like to see some way to resolve this.

  18. #98
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    It is a game! We play it for fun. If you feel that what you are doing is work then it is no longer a game and to be honest you'd be better off finding another pass time that actually rewards your work with money.

    Your whole post is typical of I don't want others to have the same as me attitude that some seem to have. If the mob tagging system was removed and someone attacks mob you've started to attack and they only do 10% damage to that mob, you have still killed it quicker than you would have done solo, the normal reaction would be great I've finished my dailies/quests quicker than I expected, what can I do with the extra time I now have. Instead we have people that will rush to forums to scream at anyone that will listen how some scrub attacked their mob.
    It doesn't just have to be a scrub, baddie or whatever name you want to call them, I think leaches would come in all player types. I think even some hardcore players would leach too. But I'm going to go with Xeraxis and what a couple others have said. I don't want to help lazy players at all. I don't even rez the lazy ppl that don't want to run back after a wipe. I would rather it take me longer to do something then to help a lazy player. If someone wants to help honestly, I'm all for that. Don't care at all about the loot, I just don't see any need to help promote laziness.

    Another note, I'm pretty sure blizz has responding to something similar to this saying they want competition on mobs/nodes/etc even on same faction. So I doubt you will see it changed completely.
    Last edited by Katfish; 2012-11-25 at 03:18 AM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Everyone who helps kill something should get something. I don't see what in the world is wrong with that. Who really cares if there's any negative side effects? The positives greatly outweigh any negatives. I could see players only being happy from the results. An MMO should be about playing together in any sort of form, not avoiding people.
    not at all, they should downscale rewards then based on dmg or something and that would mean jerks runnign around dpsing your mobs or annoying low lvl's by "helping" them and you would never get the full reward, it works fine like it is. What they could do is that for quests you are currently on, you get the completing even for normal mobs. that would make questing more fluent and help people work together, but only on quests.

    Which would solve the bot farming etc.

    Also nothing stops you from grouping with people, you'll share loot equally etc. Don't see any good reason or positive thing to changing the current system.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Katfish View Post
    It doesn't just have to be a scrub, baddie or whatever name you want to call them, I think leaches would come in all player types. I think even some hardcore players would leach too. But I'm going to go with Xeraxis and what a couple others have said. I don't want to help lazy players at all. I don't even rez the lazy ppl that don't want to run back after a wipe. I would rather it take me longer to do something then to help a lazy player. If someone wants to help honestly, I'm all for that. Don't care at all about the loot, I just don't see any need to help promote laziness.

    Another note, I'm pretty sure blizz has responding to something similar to this saying they want competition on mobs/nodes/etc even on same faction. So I doubt you will see it changed completely.
    I agree with you that lazy people can ruin a group experience such as a raid but this is about killing a few mobs. Imagine you fly to the daily quest zone only to find that a tank has pulled 7 or 8 mobs and he is slowly killing them, at present your only options are to wait for a respawn (which he'll probably tag) or try to find mobs elsewhere. If mob tagging was removed you could help the tank kill all the mobs, you would both complete your quests quicker than you could solo.

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