1. #2261
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackmoves View Post
    How in gods name would that even happen, you are not likely to have a massive boner if you are about to get "violated", I don't know about others but I need to be turned on to get a hardon and if someone is "raping" me I doubt I'd feel up for it. Would she force you to take viagra prior to it?

    Nor are you going to knock a chick up if she rams a dildo up your ass.
    That is a stereotype that needs to go away. Women can rape men.

    I notice you didn't answer the question.

  2. #2262
    I am Murloc! Xuvial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    That is a stereotype that needs to go away. Women can rape men.

    I notice you didn't answer the question.
    He's not talking about the stereotype, "rape" can imply many things. A woman could intoxicate/sedate a man and proceed to rape him anally. Extremely rare, but has happened. But "forcing" a man to impregnate herself is completely beyond understanding, that's what he's asking. It just can't happen unless the man is somewhat willing.
    There's a reason why it's a "hypothetical" situation, because it doesn't exist out of hypothesis. 99% of laws are created AFTER a situation has happened (at least once) and therefore demands the need for those laws.
    Last edited by Xuvial; 2012-11-27 at 10:59 AM.

  3. #2263
    Dreadlord mludd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    He's not talking about the stereotype, "rape" can imply many things. A woman could intoxicate/sedate a man and proceed to rape him anally. Extremely rare, but has happened. But "forcing" a man to impregnate herself is completely beyond understanding, that's what he's asking. It just can't happen unless the man is somewhat willing.
    There's a reason why it's a "hypothetical" situation, because it doesn't exist out of hypothesis. 99% of laws are created AFTER a situation has happened (at least once) and therefore demands the need for those laws.
    You can very much force an erection in a healthy male. There have been recorded cases of women restraining men and raping them.
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  4. #2264
    I am Murloc! Xuvial's Avatar
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    Regarding this whole "men's rights movement" topic in general, the reason I (as a man) can't take it seriously is because men have never needed and will never need such "movements" to hold themselves in power. Frankly I find such a notion that men need "help" with their rights a tad insulting, no we bloody don't, we are in charge of ourselves and the primary driving force behind why the world has taken such huge leaps forward in the last ~500 years. Men CREATED the concept of rights and laws (look it up).
    In the last 20,000 years of evolution no culture/society/tribe has ever existed where women dominated men in ALL roles/positions, and if such a society did exist then they obviously went extinct pretty quickly. And I don't see it happening in the next 10,000 years either. It's biology, genetics and evolution at their deepest level.
    Laws/government can't even make a scratch on stuff that goes that deep and that far back.


    Quote Originally Posted by mludd View Post
    You can very much force an erection in a healthy male. There have been recorded cases of women restraining men and raping them.
    Well then there will be a law somewhere which dictates what happens regarding child support.
    Last edited by Xuvial; 2012-11-27 at 11:08 AM.

  5. #2265
    Dreadlord mludd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    Regarding this whole "men's rights movement" topic in general, the reason I (as a man) can't take it seriously is because men have never needed and will never need such "movements" to hold themselves in power. Frankly I find such a notion that men need "help" with their rights a tad insulting, no we bloody don't, we are in charge of ourselves and the primary driving force behind why the world has taken such huge leaps forward in the last ~500 years. Men CREATED the concept of rights and laws (look it up).
    In the last 20,000 years of evolution no culture/society/tribe has ever existed where women dominated men in ALL roles/positions, and if such a society did exist then they obviously went extinct pretty quickly. And I don't see it happening in the next 10,000 years either. It's biology, genetics and evolution at their deepest level.
    Laws/government can't even make a scratch on stuff that goes that deep and that far back.
    So you're going with the usual "just suck it up you wimp" attitude...



    Well then there will be a law somewhere which dictates what happens regarding child support.
    I don't know of any such laws but I do know I've read about such rapes taking place (and women being convicted). Don't know if any pregnancies resulted from the rapes though.
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  6. #2266
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    That is a stereotype that needs to go away. Women can rape men.

    I notice you didn't answer the question.
    I don't disagree with that, what I'm saying is, boners usually doesn't happen just like that. And she will not be able to "milk" you without you having a hardon. So practically it would be a massive problem to create such a situation.

    I know men can be raped by women, by for example inserting objects etc.

    Stimulation can cause hardons even in uncomfortable situations I guess, but thats a mission and a half.
    Saw a british docu about pornography a few years back, was a big line of dudes trying out to be pornstars, they had a pretty decent looking blond to work with, most of them were unable to perform/get it up, because doing it infront of a whole camera crew simply didn't work for them. Just an example.
    Last edited by Jackmoves; 2012-11-27 at 11:19 AM.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  7. #2267
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackmoves View Post
    I don't disagree with that, what I'm saying is, boners usually doesn't happen just like that. And she will not be able to "milk" you without you having a hardon. So practically it would be a massive problem to create such a situation.

    I know men can be raped by women, by for example inserting objects etc.

    Stimulation can cause hardons even in uncomfertable situations I guess, but thats a mission and a half.
    So, it can happen, even if it is a mission. Just like you can hold down a woman and rape her, but its a mission. So that makes it ok?

    And, the question was, if a man is raped by a woman and he ejaculates inside her and there is a child, does the woman give up all rights to the child as the man gives up all rights to the child if he rapes a woman? I think the answer would be yes but I don't know.

  8. #2268
    Dreadlord mludd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackmoves View Post
    I don't disagree with that, what I'm saying is, boners usually doesn't happen just like that. And she will not be able to "milk" you without you having a hardon. So practically it would be a massive problem to create such a situation.

    I know men can be raped by women, by for example inserting objects etc.

    Stimulation can cause hardons even in uncomfortable situations I guess, but thats a mission and a half.
    Well, there's prostate stimulation if she's just after semen.

    Viagra, drugs and physical stimulation if she wants intercourse.
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  9. #2269
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    So, it can happen, even if it is a mission. Just like you can hold down a woman and rape her, but its a mission. So that makes it ok?

    And, the question was, if a man is raped by a woman and he ejaculates inside her and there is a child, does the woman give up all rights to the child as the man gives up all rights to the child if he rapes a woman? I think the answer would be yes but I don't know.
    Never said it was ok did I? I didn't mean to come off as a "raped by a woman, thats a laugh, stop complaining and be happy".

    I just wondered, how is it possible, I have personally never read or heard about anything like it.
    Men being raped yes, but nothing like the situation Fengore layed out.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  10. #2270
    The problem i see with female rights, especialy in Denmark, is the law that says you need 50% i think it is, of women in then Board of Directors in big companys.

    This is simply not fair. i would not care if there was 90% women or 90% men, but having to hire someone because of gender, and not hiering the best suited for the job, is just ridiculous.

    We have gone from male dominance (witch is also wrong), to female dominance. They wanted equalty, well, so do we men.

    And saying: I want the same payment as he do, if i doesn't, you are discriminating! is absurd when it comes to heavy weight jobs. Yes, if you can do the SAME work, in the SAME amount of time, yes, you should get the SAME paycheck in the end of the month, but most women can't carry as much weight as a normal built man.


    Again, i fully support the Mens rights movement.

  11. #2271
    Quote Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post
    He's not talking about the stereotype, "rape" can imply many things. A woman could intoxicate/sedate a man and proceed to rape him anally. Extremely rare, but has happened. But "forcing" a man to impregnate herself is completely beyond understanding, that's what he's asking. It just can't happen unless the man is somewhat willing.
    You're channeling your inner Todd Akin here (the guy who says women's bodies shut down during legitimate rape and thus can't get pregnant from "real" rape).

    You are however correct that it's very rare.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 11:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    The problem i see with female rights, especialy in Denmark, is the law that says you need 50% i think it is, of women in then Board of Directors in big companys.
    While any law that says you need X% of women at the board of directors is outright lunacy, there's no law that says you need 50% of them in Denmark. The percentage is lower than that, I can assure you.

  12. #2272
    I am Murloc! Xuvial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    The problem i see with female rights, especialy in Denmark, is the law that says you need 50% i think it is, of women in then Board of Directors in big companys.

    This is simply not fair. i would not care if there was 90% women or 90% men, but having to hire someone because of gender, and not hiering the best suited for the job, is just ridiculous.
    That does sound pretty ridiculous, is there really a law in Denmark which says 50% of BoD need to be women? That sounds completely pointless and is in fact even more demeaning to women because it's a case of "oh just put her in there, she's a woman".

    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    We have gone from male dominance (witch is also wrong), to female dominance. They wanted equalty, well, so do we men.
    Don't say it is "wrong" just for the sake of it, no kind of inequality is "wrong" unless the results can be PROVEN to be genuinely harmful to society/community.

    I welcome you to watch this, it's called the "Norwegian Gender Equality Paradox" where despite women having some of the highest representation in the workforce in Norway (compared to any other country), the jobs themselves still show an extremely high segregation depending upon gender. It's something that is completely voluntary, something that has happened on it's own and never been "forced".



    The women are extremely happy working where they are, same as the men. They are also getting paid less on average than men because - you guessed it - their choice of work is DIFFERENT, in most cases the jobs women picked aren't as high-level, complex or demanding as the jobs men picked. A Health Nurse is not going to get paid as much as a Senior Civil Engineer (apples to oranges!!), and Norwegian women understand that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    And saying: I want the same payment as he do, if i doesn't, you are discriminating! is absurd when it comes to heavy weight jobs. Yes, if you can do the SAME work, in the SAME amount of time, yes, you should get the SAME paycheck in the end of the month, but most women can't carry as much weight as a normal built man.

    Again, i fully support the Mens rights movement.
    Again depends on the kind of work, most jobs these days aren't that labor intensive. Even a woman can learn to operate a digger, forklift or crane to lift heavy loads, but they still choose to stay out of construction.

    But you're right in saying that feminists demanding "equal pay" while completely missing the fact that women tend to pick easier jobs = stupid as hell.
    Last edited by Xuvial; 2012-11-27 at 11:59 AM.

  13. #2273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    And saying: I want the same payment as he do, if i doesn't, you are discriminating! is absurd when it comes to heavy weight jobs. Yes, if you can do the SAME work, in the SAME amount of time, yes, you should get the SAME paycheck in the end of the month, but most women can't carry as much weight as a normal built man.
    There are few such jobs left nowdays though, warehouses? They use trucks, heavy labour factories, a lot of automated machines help you out there, etc ... there are some jobs I can think off were you rely on physical strength, construction(literally no women works with this), fire fighters(I have never seen a female firefighter in my life), police(need to pass testing), ambulance personell(no idea, but they gotta be able to lift heavy sometimes), military, which at least here still demands women to pass the physical tests demanded for their MOS(which is why you see literally no women in infantry or physical demanding MOS).
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  14. #2274
    Quote Originally Posted by Aalyy View Post
    OK so after 113 pages it does indeed boil down to the claim that since women have the right to control their own bodies men's rights are being violated unless they get to walk away at will from any responsibility to a child that may result from their sexual activities. In other words, unless the man wants the child his rights are being violated if he is forced by law to step up and take responsibility. The same responsibility that a woman has to under the law.

    Oh and Safe Haven laws are a feminist conspiracy against fathers and we shouldn't think that the MRM is anything other than a total joke. Got it!
    You're either not very experienced at debate or not very mature. You don't get to put words in my mouth.

    I never said men should be able to walk away from children at will. Nor have I said safe haven laws are a conspiracy.

    Men should have a window of opportunity to reject parentage of a child as a means to family planning. Preferably before the child is born so it gives the woman time to decide what to do. There's no sound reason the unilateral decision to keep or abort a child should leave him entirely on the hook for 21 years because of a 1 night stand. If she wants to keep the kid, she can raise it on her own or if she's unable to handle it on her own she can abort. No one is taking that decision away from her. Again, there's no good reason a decision that SHE'S the only one allowed to make should be the deciding factor in the fate of the man.

    Second, Safe Haven laws weren't designed as a feminist conspiracy. They can simply be used as a way to walk away from a child that the mother is unable or unwilling to care for.

    What about men who are unable or unwilling to support a child? Where's their out?

  15. #2275
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    When women have rights, and men expectations, something's wrong. When women are allowed to do stuff because of their gender that men aren't allowed, something's wrong. When women can't be prosecuted for doing things men can be prosecuted for, something's wrong.

    And when we get proposals to have 40% of board members as women (or however it went), I wonder why we don't enforce a 40% male quotient on kindergarten teachers. Since they're both equally ill-thought through.

    There are so many situations where men are just expected to be silent and take it, while women are allowed to do whatever they want (since it's their legal right). Not saying women don't face similar issues in other areas, but it doesn't justify injustice. Either way.
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  16. #2276
    Legendary! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fengore View Post
    That's treading over agreed ground though, Wells said IIRC he agreed in defence of the male in those circumstances.

    I just wondered if there was actually a precedent for rape, discussion aside.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 07:49 AM ----------



    That's not what I said, that's not what I said at all, infact how the shit did you get that from what I said?

    Being unmarried doesn't mean you're raising it single, you can have joint custody from people who are separated pre-birth.


    What I'm saying is, both genders should have the right to say "I do not want this child" and should either the mother or (in rarer cases) the father be in a position where they want the child, and are aware they're doing so without financial support, then they should raise the child alone without any connection to their paternal partner.

    However the decision to single handedly raise that child would be made in the knowledge there is no financial support. If you can't afford it, don't have it.
    in the situation you previously mentioned, it was a mutual agreement. your suggestion merely places an even greater incentive on the mother to abort, which is a risky procedure. not only that, many women have great difficulty giving up babies after they're born because of their natural instincts. whereas the man suffers absolutely nothing. you really cant just play a numbers game with "options" and pretend they all weigh equally.

  17. #2277
    Quote Originally Posted by Raphtheone View Post
    When women have rights, and men expectations, something's wrong. When women are allowed to do stuff because of their gender that men aren't allowed, something's wrong. When women can't be prosecuted for doing things men can be prosecuted for, something's wrong.

    And when we get proposals to have 40% of board members as women (or however it went), I wonder why we don't enforce a 40% male quotient on kindergarten teachers. Since they're both equally ill-thought through.

    There are so many situations where men are just expected to be silent and take it, while women are allowed to do whatever they want (since it's their legal right). Not saying women don't face similar issues in other areas, but it doesn't justify injustice. Either way.
    That 40% female board members policy is bullshit. I can't believe Sweden actually went through with it.

  18. #2278
    Quote Originally Posted by mludd View Post
    Well, there's prostate stimulation if she's just after semen.

    Viagra, drugs and physical stimulation if she wants intercourse.
    Prostate stimulation releases prostate fluids, not semen. If a woman wants semen, she has a hell of an uphill battle.

  19. #2279
    Legendary! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    Prostate stimulation releases prostate fluids, not semen. If a woman wants semen, she has a hell of an uphill battle.
    its not unheard of for rape victims bodies to respond in ways they dont want.

  20. #2280
    First off, thank for acknowledging that not feminists are insane extremists; that viewpoint gets thrown around far too often in the thread.

    I think the primary problem barring the progress of the Men's Right Movement, which has perfectly valid concerns such as men's health issues and cases involving child custody, is men themselves. More specifically, men who are misogynists, and see movements like this as opportunities to establish some sort of male supremacy. It muddles the efforts of others focusing on legitimate issues, and overall tarnishes the perception of the group as a whole. Feminism can survive because it is well established and overall, both historically and still in a modern sense especially in health issues, it has more needs to meet and therefore has relatively more numerical need in society.

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