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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Henako View Post
    How about we worry less about men's and women's rights and more about people's rights. Aren't we all on the same team?
    Not all groups are disadvantaged to the same degree. Are there instances of discrimination against men? Absolutely. That being said its still pretty god damn awesome to be a white male.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  2. #22
    It's hard to take men crying about equal rights seriously when women are considered a minority in America despite there actually being more of them. Men hold most of the power. I will grant that in divorce and child custody hearings, men often get fucked, but that is one of the few instances where men routinely get the short side of the stick.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Not all groups are disadvantaged to the same degree. Are there instances of discrimination against men? Absolutely. That being said its still pretty god damn awesome to be a white male.
    If your only goal is a career you can expect a little more money. If your goal is much else then there's really no benefit conveyed....

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    First off, thank for acknowledging that not feminists are insane extremists; that viewpoint gets thrown around far too often in the thread.

    I think the primary problem barring the progress of the Men's Right Movement, which has perfectly valid concerns such as men's health issues and cases involving child custody, is men themselves. More specifically, men who are misogynists, and see movements like this as opportunities to establish some sort of male supremacy. It muddles the efforts of others focusing on legitimate issues, and overall tarnishes the perception of the group as a whole. Feminism can survive because it is well established and overall, both historically and still in a modern sense especially in health issues, it has more needs to meet and therefore has relatively more numerical need in society.
    Pretty much this. Plus I can never find any sympathy for groups when a large % of their members seem to be driven by petty tit for tat playground politics. 'They should suffer as much as we have to' is not a good argument, and the victimization is just pathetic. If they can work out that then I would be behind them.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    If your only goal is a career you can expect a little more money. If your goal is much else then there's really no benefit conveyed....
    Really? That's the only instance of how white males have an advantage?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    I think the male rights movement is silly. When have men ever been oppressed? And I'm not talking about insurance rates or selective service. I'm talking about real, actual oppression.
    "Rape" accusations, partner abuse, double standard in favour of women, divorce "agreements"...

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Bathory's Avatar
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    Men have it tough? Lol...
    You now stand before the Countess.
    A story of Firsts from around the world:
    http://thingsihaveneverdone.wordpress.com/

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Really? That's the only instance of how white males have an advantage?
    Well it's certainly not in family life, court, prison... I really can't think of anywhere it conveys a benefit aside from perhaps corporate america.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    "Rape" accusations, partner abuse, double standard in favour of women, divorce "agreements"...
    Actually acting like men are falsely accused of rape right and left is a good example of why the men's rights crowd have a hard time being taken seriously. That and when you read their stuff it so frequently smacks of some guy who was wrong by a woman in his private life at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Bathory View Post
    Men have it tough? Lol...
    Tougher than you might think. I mean it's not like the MR Movement is trying to take anything away from women.

  11. #31
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Actually acting like men are falsely accused of rape right and left is a good example of why the men's rights crowd have a hard time being taken seriously. That and when you read their stuff it so frequently smacks of some guy who was wrong by a woman in his private life at some point.
    Acting like false accusation of rape do not exist is as bad if not more.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Well it's certainly not in family life, court, prison... I really can't think of anywhere it conveys a benefit aside from perhaps corporate america.
    IDK, we're historically way over represented in government, so something is up.

    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Acting like false accusation of rape do not exist is as bad if not more.
    No one acts like they don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Actually acting like men are falsely accused of rape right and left is a good example of why the men's rights crowd have a hard time being taken seriously. That and when you read their stuff it so frequently smacks of some guy who was wrong by a woman in his private life at some point.
    Yeah, that's another gripe I have with them. It always comes across as insincere and cynical.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Henako View Post
    How about we worry less about men's and women's rights and more about people's rights. Aren't we all on the same team?
    The women's right movement was initially started because of the inequality to their male counterparts. As such men's and women's rights movements should be viewed as a way of lessening sexism and have little to nothing to do with individual rights of the sexes that need looking into. An example of that is the whole deal with churches offering birth control in their insurance plans. It is an important issue for women, but it's not what the women's rights were all about in the beginning.

    Once we separate all these issues for both sexes that just need to be fixed, the rest of it comes down to "It's unfair because he/she has it easier, or the law is almost always on her side." It is often impossible to appease both sexes in the majority of these cases. For a long time, men have had the majority of things easier, so it's understandable that we don't have a big foothold on the issue.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Actually acting like men are falsely accused of rape right and left is a good example of why the men's rights crowd have a hard time being taken seriously. That and when you read their stuff it so frequently smacks of some guy who was wrong by a woman in his private life at some point.
    If you actually read about it instead of just allowing the loudest (and most obnoxious) members to enter your thought process you'll see the primary focus is in family courts and domestic violence cases. There are social issues too, such as the (Until Movember) almost total lack of awareness campaigns for men's health.

  16. #36
    Banned Manakin's Avatar
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    It seems *certain* people wish to dismiss mens rights as a joke, you discriminate agaisnt women we have no sympathy for your rights.
    Or (this is my fav) women are paid less... Does this take into account hours worked, what kind of work it is (labour, retail, health) how many breaks they have, what hours they work. I mean, i could say women dominate certain work areas like education and social services and the pay differences for men is astounding. But hey, ya know they'd just label me as misogynistic.

    For reqqs points, i'd say thats a very fucking raw deal he has. Alot of women tend to marry armed forces blokes simpley to ride it out... I know im genralizing but in britan i hear of it alot (Like i said its genralizing the sex, and its anecdotal evidence dont shoot me down!) Best thing he got out of it i guess is seeing his son.

    Eitherway, i hate to see diverse groups campaigning for each sex's rights. I'd much rather see a single unified group campaigning for equailty in all fields, be it employment, marriage, birth control/ abortions (yes i think a man should DEFO have a say in it). But sadly i doubt this will ever happen currently.

  17. #37
    Pandaren Monk Slummish's Avatar
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    Men's rights... what a joke. I am treated like a king because I am white and male and wealthy. Here, do a little reading: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/he...l-assault.html

    I'll treat men's rights as something other than a joke when 1 in 5 men in the U.S. have to fear domestic violence and sexual assault. If you were born a male, you need to clam up and thank your lucky stars every day. Name me one country on the planet wherein men are viewed as the property of another person...

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    IDK, we're historically way over represented in government, so something is up.
    And that's obviously been changing. People are free to vote for whomever they wish. Short of mandating each party put a male and female candidate for every office in the country I don't see much at issue. Obviously you do and that's fine for you. I'm just saying there are issues with being male today.

  19. #39
    Warchief Reqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
    Alot of women tend to marry armed forces blokes simpley to ride it out...
    Heard a statistic recently that puts Divorce rates amongst Military families at nearly 75%. I'll see if I can get statistics as to who is the most likely to initiate divorce and why.

  20. #40
    The Patient DismalNether's Avatar
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    I see lots of posts claiming that since men have not been oppressed that there should not be a mens rights movement. However, the movement is not about oppression in the traditional sense, it is about the rights of men that get ignored or outright opposed by acts such as Title IX and VAWA. Title IX is an act in the united states which originally had a goal to seek equal funding to both male and female sports and extracurricular activites in university. But there was less female interest in these activities so because universities were forced to fund both sexes equally they had to cut male programs. Now Obama wants to extend Title IX to STEM courses at university which you guessed it are traditionally male dominated fields. The main fear being that for the same reasons that male extracurricular activity groups were cut either men will be excluded from these programs based on how many women sign up or that there will be lowered acceptance averages for women/quotas to fill for woman to enable men to continue to enter into these programs which is not equality.

    I don't know much about VAWA but from what I've gathered in discussions the Violence Against Women Act is a rapeshield law, that is it defends the identity and rights of women who accuse men of rape. However, it also has points in it which don't allow women to withdraw their accusations citing that societal pressure forces women to withdraw. This leads to men wrongfully being convicted of rape by spiteful women.

    A third important issue for the mens rights movement is that in many states while the identity of a woman is protected when she accuses a man of rape the identity of the man is published even before he has been declared guilty which basically amounts to slander in the case that he is innocent, he will have a very tough time finding jobs, in many cases men have said they've been fired on account of these accusations before a trial has even taken place. In addition it is often extremely hard to take a false accuser to court over this.

    Finally a fourth key issue is circumcision, many in the movement feel that it violates the rights of the baby because it is an unnecessary cosmetic surgery with many potential complications. One of the key reasons that the mens rights movement is opposed to this is because of the ban of FGM(Female Genital Mutilation).

    All in all men are seeking equal rights in areas where politicians fail to represent men and ignore male issues in favor of seeking the approval of the larger electoral group, women.

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