Isn't it about time the Mens' Rights Movement stopped being treated like a joke?

[Laize]

Before I do that, show the article demonstrating prophylactic mammectomies to be a main line response for those with the Ashkenzi gene.

There are pretty much 2 options for preventing breast cancer in Ashkenazi Jews: http://www.cancer.org/cancer/breastc...cer-prevention

Surgery (mastectomy) or chemoprevention which involves taking drugs like Tamoxifen.

Having relatives who've taken Tamoxifen I can tell you that in addition to these side effects they've also been linked with night sweats (Which are fucking awful), vivid and terrifying dreams, fatigue and nausea.

So you can either remove your breasts (Which have a 97% success rate at preventing breast cancer in such at-risk populations) or take drugs that basically suck the estrogen out of your body (Yes, I know that's not exactly what they do) and reduce quality of life in other ways and still not be totally safe.

Obviously you're going to want a second opinion before a mastectomy, but bilateral mastectomy is the most effective way to prevent breast cancer for these women.

---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 05:46 AM ----------

I agree getting your teeth straightened is good, but its still a cosmetic and medically unrequired procedure and you've spoken against those.


They do little and carry little to no risk. Which is why its up to the parent, because it amounts to little more than a cultural practice. Like the American practice of using braces to get perfect teeth beyond what is required for good health.

I know of no children who get braces where it's not thought they'll improve quality of life.

Crossbites, underbites and overbites lead to being unable to fully close the mouth, increased wear and tear on teeth and more trips to the dentist.

---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 05:48 AM ----------

Laize, you can't ignore the scientific research just because it disagrees with you.

I'm not ignoring scientific research.

---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 05:50 AM ----------

Why do you selectively ignore the cited benefits of circumcision and the drawbacks of mammectomy?

Because the cited benefits of a circumcision involve a reduction in penile cancer if you have phimosis and the reduction in STD contraction is fixed by wearing a condom.

[Wells]

I know of no children who get braces where it's not thought they'll improve quality of life.

You're shifting your stance here. You've said that parents shouldn't get to force medically unrequired cosmetic surgery on their kids. For most kids braces are the definition of that.

Crossbites, underbites and overbites lead to being unable to fully close the mouth, increased wear and tear on teeth and more trips to the dentist.

Yeah and millions of kids just get their teeth straightened and tweaked.

[starlord]

Because the cited benefits of a circumcision involve a reduction in penile cancer if you have phimosis and the reduction in STD contraction is fixed by wearing a condom.

phimosis itself is also a problem.

[Laize]

You cannot compare this and male circumcision, the foreskin has no use now because clothing now can act as a protector for the penis head. The trade off being having a little loss of sensitivity. While the breast still does have a important function because studies have found that breast milk is still the best for babies than formula. And to top it off a lot of women's sexuality is tied up in their breast so removing them becomes a issue to them and their self esteem. There is no way to tell if a man is circumcised or not without seeing him nude but you will be able to tell a breast-less woman. And how many men are willing to date and marry a woman without breast? And just in case you did not know in most breast removal cases they remove the nipple as well.

Alright so you don't like the mastectomy example.

There are plenty of other elective surgeries with actual benefits I don't see parents forcing on their kids. For example, when was the last time you heard of a parent forcing their child to get a gastric bypass?

---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 05:53 AM ----------

phimosis itself is also a problem.

That's why circumcision is the treatment for it.

[Wells]

For example, when was the last time you heard of a parent forcing their child to get a gastric bypass?

Children get them all the time actually. Of course children aren't forced into them because its not hard to get a fat kid to agree to surgery that will make him thinner, but you can hardly say that a parent is "forcing" an infant to get a circumcision given the mental nature of infants.

[Laize]

You're shifting your stance here. You've said that parents shouldn't get to force medically unrequired cosmetic surgery on their kids. For most kids braces are the definition of that.

Yeah and millions of kids just get their teeth straightened and tweaked.

First off, have you ever had braces? They're not a surgical procedure.

Second, they improve quality of life. There's a clear benefit to them.

I'm saying you shouldn't be allowed to snip a kid any more than you should be allowed to tattoo them.

[Rukentuts]

There are plenty of other elective surgeries with actual benefits I don't see parents forcing on their kids. For example, when was the last time you heard of a parent forcing their child to get a gastric bypass?

Personally I would have chosen those cosmetic surgeries those "mothers" of child "beauty" pageant contestants often force them to have.

[Wells]

First off, have you ever had braces?

For many years.

They're not a surgical procedure.

Oh please.

First off, have you ever had braces? They're not a surgical procedure.

Funny, I think foreskin would be terribly inconvenient.

[Luko]

Actually, the only people we have to stand up against are bashing, close minded, gender hating feminists. Which is weird, considering the only people women have to stand up to are the men who fit this same description. Seems like the enemy here should be closemindedness in general, but hey, that'd be too broad of a target. Organizations need a target of resentment to function properly as a common motivator, right?

In other words, the norm's not changing any time soon. Let's all have ice cream.

[Laize]

Children get them all the time actually. Of course children aren't forced into them because its not hard to get a fat kid to agree to surgery that will make him thinner, but you can hardly say that a parent is "forcing" an infant to get a circumcision given the mental nature of infants.

What if a fat kid would've said "no" to a gastric bypass? I certainly did, so they're out there. What do you think would happen if the news found out that parents forced a kid who said no to get a gastric bypass or a tattoo or some other permanent procedure that was medically unnecessary and did not improve quality of life? The only medically unncessary, non-quality-of-life-enhancing procedure it's acceptable to have done to a child is a circumcision.

[Wells]

What if a fat kid would've said "no" to a gastric bypass?

It would be up to the parents. Personally I'd do ask he wanted were he my child.

I certainly did, so they're out there. What do you think would happen if the news found out that parents forced a kid who said no to get a gastric bypass or a tattoo or some other permanent procedure that was medically unnecessary and did not improve quality of life?

Because forcing a teenager to get a serious operation is just like getting your infant circumcised.

[Laize]

For many years.

Oh please.

I had them for many years as well. They're not a surgical procedure.

Funny, I think foreskin would be terribly inconvenient.

Alright. I get it. You don't think it's a big enough deal. Let me ask, though. Say you have a son. Do you get him snipped? If so, what do you say to him if he grows up and asks why you did it? "Because everyone else was doing it"?

[Ebildays]

Alright so you don't like the mastectomy example.

There are plenty of other elective surgeries with actual benefits I don't see parents forcing on their kids. For example, when was the last time you heard of a parent forcing their child to get a gastric bypass?

---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 05:53 AM ----------



That's why circumcision is the treatment for it.

Gastric Bypass is a last resort option for over weight people and while it gets good results you do so at the expense of re-routing your intestines, reducing the amount of vitamins you can take, and the risk for some major complications, including death. No parent or doctor in their right mind will give a child gastric bypass when you can change their diet and help them to exercise more to reduce their weight and give them a life time of healthy eat habits. Not everyone is made to be a size 2 but a doctor can help you find a health weight range for a child.

[Wells]

I had them for many years as well. They're not a surgical procedure.

Yes it is.

Surgery (from the Greek: χειρουργική cheirourgikē, via Latin: chirurgiae, meaning "hand work") is an ancient medical specialty that uses operative manual and instrumental techniques on a patient to investigate and/or treat a pathological condition such as disease or injury, or to help improve bodily function or appearance.

wiring your teeth up and pushing them around is that to a T.

Alright. I get it. You don't think it's a big enough deal. Let me ask, though. Say you have a son. Do you get him snipped? If so, what do you say to him if he grows up and asks why you did it? "Because everyone else was doing it"?

No clue. Don't have kids don't plan on having kids. If you don't think that you can explain to your kid why you got him circumcised then maybe its not something that you should do, but your inability to explain to your son why you did it does not mean you should ban other parents from making that decision for themselves.

[Laize]

Gastric Bypass is a last resort option for over weight people and while it gets good results you do so at the expense of re-routing your intestines, reducing the amount of vitamins you can take, and the risk for some major complications, including death. No parent or doctor in their right mind will give a child gastric bypass when you can change their diet and help them to exercise more to reduce their weight and give them a life time of healthy eat habits. Not everyone is made to be a size 2 but a doctor can help you find a health weight range for a child.

But a surgical procedure with no discernible benefit in western society (absent phimosis) and risks (however small) is just fine?

By that logic it should be perfectly fine for a parent to tattoo their child. A practice which, by the way, is illegal pretty much everywhere. Even states that allow tattooing of minors (with parental consent) consider tattooing a child a serious offense. California calls it "aggravated mayhem" or, lesser, "child endangerment".

[starlord]

But a surgical procedure with no discernible benefit in western society (absent phimosis) and risks (however small) is just fine?

so you mean, no benefits except for the benefits it has?

[Laize]

so you mean, no benefits except for the benefits it has?

It has a clear benefit of cancer prevention and QoL improvements if you have phimosis. If you don't, the only benefit conveyed is a (very) slight resistance to STD infection. Such a benefit is only really useful if you plan on being promiscuous in South Africa without a condom.

[starlord]

It has a clear benefit of cancer prevention and QoL improvements if you have phimosis. If you don't, the only benefit conveyed is a (very) slight resistance to STD infection. Such a benefit is only really useful if you plan on being promiscuous in South Africa without a condom.

so it has benefits?

[Wells]

Ok so slight benefits don't count

but slight risks do.

Well that's nice.

[Laize]

Ok so slight benefits don't count

but slight risks do.

Well that's nice.

I think for such slight benefits, the child should have a say.

Should tattooing a child be legal?