1. #1
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    Few Questions for Top Parsing Hunters.

    Looking for answers primarily from players pushing heroic progression.

    Trying to get that last bit of DPS out and a few things I wanted to brainstorm with some other hunters about.

    How are you dealing with Rabid as BM? Auto-Cast to maximize uptime, macro'd with BW for more auto's during BW? Something completely different? With BM in specific

    What fights are you preferring Lynx Rush, and what fights are you preferring aMoC with BM? I've seen several Hunter's starting to scrap aMoC all together. i.e. Kennyloggins.

    At higher gear levels you start to lose a ton of haste, at any point have you started to favor a small amount of haste?

    Not really a question but something for discussion, is anyone else annoyed that our single target DPS can be so extremely hindered (By up to 10k I've seen) from something we can't control, like our trinkets not proccing at the start of a fight? I want to wipe every time this happens on fights that have extremely tight DPS checks.

    Also here are my guilds logs if someone wants to try to pinpoint specific errors.
    http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/195797/

    I figure I'm not the only one wanting to know a lot of these things, hopefully we can get some good discussion in here and come up with some answers .

  2. #2
    I despise raiding with BM so I don't have answers to most of your questions.

    From what I've seen, BM almost exclusively uses Lynx Rush and aMoC is better for SV (us SV players have ass pet damage anyway).


    As for Haste, again I can't necessarily back this up with hard data, but I can't imagine any reason you would ever stop stacking as much Crit as possible, and I would even think Mastery would be better than Haste if you can't get Crit. The only time Hunters want Haste is for SV breakpoints, but even right now Crit is still heavily favored 100% of the time.


    As for single target DPS, I personally don't mind where I'm at right now. It was frustrating when I was mostly in blues but now that I'm in the 480+ ilvl range, my single target is much much better, albeit I play a different spec than you. Our class is pretty gear dependent this tier/xpac so far.

    Anyways, hope someone that's spent more time with BM gives you some more concrete answers than I could. Good luck.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by skitz0129 View Post
    As for Haste, again I can't necessarily back this up with hard data, but I can't imagine any reason you would ever stop stacking as much Crit as possible, and I would even think Mastery would be better than Haste if you can't get Crit. The only time Hunters want Haste is for SV breakpoints, but even right now Crit is still heavily favored 100% of the time.
    I'm not saying favoring haste over crit, but haste over mastery. I've seen a few reforging mastery over haste at extremely high gear levels.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinespeed View Post
    Looking for answers primarily from players pushing heroic progression.

    Trying to get that last bit of DPS out and a few things I wanted to brainstorm with some other hunters about.

    How are you dealing with Rabid as BM? Auto-Cast to maximize uptime, macro'd with BW for more auto's during BW? Something completely different? With BM in specific

    What fights are you preferring Lynx Rush, and what fights are you preferring aMoC with BM? I've seen several Hunter's starting to scrap aMoC all together. i.e. Kennyloggins.

    At higher gear levels you start to lose a ton of haste, at any point have you started to favor a small amount of haste?

    Not really a question but something for discussion, is anyone else annoyed that our single target DPS can be so extremely hindered (By up to 10k I've seen) from something we can't control, like our trinkets not proccing at the start of a fight? I want to wipe every time this happens on fights that have extremely tight DPS checks.

    Also here are my guilds logs if someone wants to try to pinpoint specific errors.
    http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/195797/

    I figure I'm not the only one wanting to know a lot of these things, hopefully we can get some good discussion in here and come up with some answers .
    Rabid is Macro'd with your CDs (BW, RF, Lynx Rush, Stampede (after Stampede pets are out), etc.)

    aMoC sims higher DPS than Lynx Rush for BM. However, I prefer Lynx Rush on fights that do not require the pet to run around too much. aMoC is also tough to cast out of BW with the 60 Focus cost but its still worth it.

    I was rather disappointed that our DMC Trinket requires a critical strike to proc. But it is what it is. Now that I'm in the high 490s, it does not matter much.

    P.S; I don't mean to be a jerk, but I do not consider anyone who isn't familiar with all their specs even though they a pure DPS class. There's no such thing as a high-level progression minded "Survival" or "BM" hunter. If you have a mindset for progression, you need to be able to adapt to the fights with all your specs. No one spec is the best spec for all fights. A great example for this is Gara'jal. If the entire raid is in ~465-470 gear and DPS is a huge issue, anyone who refuses to play BM over SV should be immediately sat/kicked from the raid. /rant.

  5. #5
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    Don't use LR on H-Spirit Kings. It might be tempting to burst down a king at the 30% health mark (when the next king is summoned), but then if your LR jumps to the other king like Zian with his shield up, it's SoL. Learned that the hard way.

    I use aMoC in almost every fight, the only place it would be a real huge problem would probably be heavily movement intense fights, like H-Vizier, where you can't bank 60 or even 30 focus under BW.

  6. #6
    I macro Rabid into BW, but keep it on a seperate bind too, in case it comes off at an od or crucial dps time, or when i need more freenzy stacks quick.
    I use aMoC on most fight's and do a lot of duble target amoc when it's posible. I go with Lynx Rush on Feng sometimes, Wind Lord, and that's about it.
    Yeah i started to reforge out of haste at around 493, when i got my 2p bonus, mastery came slight ahead for me.
    Last edited by Kirdiz; 2012-11-24 at 11:59 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinespeed View Post
    Looking for answers primarily from players pushing heroic progression.

    Trying to get that last bit of DPS out and a few things I wanted to brainstorm with some other hunters about.

    How are you dealing with Rabid as BM? Auto-Cast to maximize uptime, macro'd with BW for more auto's during BW? Something completely different? With BM in specific

    What fights are you preferring Lynx Rush, and what fights are you preferring aMoC with BM? I've seen several Hunter's starting to scrap aMoC all together. i.e. Kennyloggins.

    At higher gear levels you start to lose a ton of haste, at any point have you started to favor a small amount of haste?

    Not really a question but something for discussion, is anyone else annoyed that our single target DPS can be so extremely hindered (By up to 10k I've seen) from something we can't control, like our trinkets not proccing at the start of a fight? I want to wipe every time this happens on fights that have extremely tight DPS checks.

    Also here are my guilds logs if someone wants to try to pinpoint specific errors.
    http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/195797/

    I figure I'm not the only one wanting to know a lot of these things, hopefully we can get some good discussion in here and come up with some answers .
    Personally I think AMoC sucks ass. It is clunky, inconvenient and unnecessary.

    The things you are talking about, like micro-managing stat weights, and macroing rabid, are extremely minor changes. 100 dps here or there. Having the right reforge won't give you ranks.

    If you are keen to up your performance and start setting your name down in the rankings regularly, I would highly recommend recording your raids and watching them back. What you think you do and what you actually do are often two very different things.

    Selected at random, I took a look at your Tsulong kill. Your pets active time is only 80%, but without you watching it back its hard for you to know what you can focus on to improve next time.

    For comparison, this is my kill from this week http://goo.gl/Xgauq which is exactly the same duration.

    Take a look at my pet active time, and consequently the number of kill commands.
    It is also worth drawing attention to the difference in damage between Lynx Rush and AMoC, and noting that LR does a shit load more damage, while saving you hundreds of focus, and never needing you to delay other abilities. Check out all the extra Arcane Shots I can pull off with the focus I saved on LR, and how many Cobra Strikes I pick up because of it. You also only use BW 7 times.

    Just a few things to think about.
    Last edited by Carlaena; 2012-11-24 at 12:16 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlaena View Post
    Personally I think AMoC sucks ass. It is clunky, inconvenient and unnecessary.

    The things you are talking about, like micro-managing stat weights, and macroing rabid, are extremely minor changes. 100 dps here or there. Having the right reforge won't give you ranks.

    If you are keen to up your performance and start setting your name down in the rankings regularly, I would highly recommend recording your raids and watching them back. What you think you do and what you actually do are often two very different things.

    Selected at random, I took a look at your Tsulong kill. Your pets active time is only 80%, but without you watching it back its hard for you to know what you can focus on to improve next time.

    For comparison, this is my kill from this week http://goo.gl/Xgauq which is exactly the same duration.

    Take a look at my pet active time, and consequently the number of kill commands.
    It is also worth drawing attention to the difference in damage between Lynx Rush and AMoC, and noting that LR does a shit load more damage, while saving you hundreds of focus, and never needing you to delay other abilities. Check out all the extra Arcane Shots I can pull off with the focus I saved on LR, and how many Cobra Strikes I pick up because of it. You also only use BW 7 times.

    Just a few things to think about.
    Tsu Long is also a really odd fight, and is much different in 10m than in 25m. In 25m You are assigned to an add specifically, and you only have time to kill that one before the next spawns, keeping my pet at 100% up time on that fight would result in failing the mechanics because your pet would be on the other side of the platform killing adds I'm not assigned to, and would have to run all the way accross to get back and dps the add. So I'm not worried about pet up time on that fight. I've done it in 10m as well, and you have much more freedom.

    As far as Rabid being a minor DPS gain, this may or may not be true, I seem to think there has to be a way to make it more effective than just auto-casting it.

  9. #9
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    Rabid, since it was changed to +attack speed%, doesn't benefit any of those tier talents at 75. The detriment of autocasting Rabid boils down to wasting the buff while your pet isn't attacking, which can happen a bunch in target switching fights. However, if you delay your LR (and thus potentially your macro'd Rabid), this might be a bigger detriment, based on how much you delay vs. how much of the buff you waste.

    Personally, I've been burned by Rabid autocast on H-SKs when they throw up a bubble seemingly right in line with the CD, or on H-Will where there's just an insane amount of pet travel time, though I'm thinking of using blink strike on that fight if I do it in BM in the future.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinespeed View Post
    Tsu Long is also a really odd fight, and is much different in 10m than in 25m. In 25m You are assigned to an add specifically, and you only have time to kill that one before the next spawns, keeping my pet at 100% up time on that fight would result in failing the mechanics because your pet would be on the other side of the platform killing adds I'm not assigned to, and would have to run all the way accross to get back and dps the add. So I'm not worried about pet up time on that fight. I've done it in 10m as well, and you have much more freedom.

    As far as Rabid being a minor DPS gain, this may or may not be true, I seem to think there has to be a way to make it more effective than just auto-casting it.
    Macroing Rabid into all your cooldowns reduces the risk of it going off right before an idle phase, which is probably a simple solution for most players, and probably not far off the uber-mega-optimum theorycrafted solution.

    Logs and rankings suggest that plenty of other hunters have just as much "freedom" in 25m as you do in 10m. As I said, I picked it at random. Take a look at your Lei Shi kill and compare it to mine, notice the difference in the number of Kill Commands. Also notice how, once again, LR is destroying AMoC in damage and cost.

    I'm not saying that efficient use of Rabid isn't something to strive for, but fixing bad habits will reward you with a hundred times more performance increase.

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