1. #1

    10 man raid composition (healers)

    Something i've been debating a bit recently based on the current 10 man content especially is what is the right set up for a 10 man group?
    Is it 2 tanks (with at least 1 having a good offspec dps) 5 dps and 3 healers (with at least 1 having a good dps offspec)
    or is it 2 tanks (with at least 1 having a good offspec dps) 6 dps (with at least 1 having a good healing offspec) and 2 healers

    For the most part most fights need 2 tanks except a couple really. However most 10 man fights seem much more designed around 6 dps and 2 healers. Last expansion we mostly ran 3 healers and dropped to 2 on certain fights, but now I'm noticing we go through pretty much every fight only using 2 healers. Now i've not experienced terrace of the latter part of hof yet on normal or done any heroics so maybe this changes, but right now when we're looking at recruitment I think it is important to be clear what we want from a new player and that is, do we need a dps that can heal sometimes or a healer that can dps sometimes?

    This might be sounding like a silly question, but since blizzard makes their 25 man design quite clear with raid finder being 6 healers, 2 tanks and the rest dps. Obviously most guilds tinker a bit with that, but the difference of 1 dps or healer is less dramatic as you are only changing 1/25 players rather than 1/10.
    Sorry for seeming to ramble on but the correct balance of healers in 10 man always seems to be a strange one to me.

  2. #2
    I'd say go with 3 healers, one of whom has a good dps spec. Preferably a resto shammy -> ele shammy or resto druid -> moonkin, or a disc/holy priest -> shadow. Makes it much easier to transition as gear for both specs is *somewhat* similar.

  3. #3
    I think it depends partly on what healer classes you have available. Looking at logs from other 10man guilds, those with a holy paladin or mistweaver seem to 2heal more frequently. As our healer team consists of resto shaman, resto druid, holy priest and disc priest, we've been 3 healing most encounters. In fact, I think only Elegon, Spirit Kings and our first Gara'jal kill are the exceptions. In HoF and ToES so far we've been using 3, although on some fights the disc has done far more smiting than dedicated healing.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ati View Post
    I think it depends partly on what healer classes you have available. Looking at logs from other 10man guilds, those with a holy paladin or mistweaver seem to 2heal more frequently. As our healer team consists of resto shaman, resto druid, holy priest and disc priest, we've been 3 healing most encounters. In fact, I think only Elegon, Spirit Kings and our first Gara'jal kill are the exceptions. In HoF and ToES so far we've been using 3, although on some fights the disc has done far more smiting than dedicated healing.
    We are two healing most encounters with a resto druid + disc priest.
    Also, alot of the time the disc priest is smiting and the resto druid solo healing ( kinda )

  5. #5
    Dreadlord Outofmana's Avatar
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    I would like for blizzard to tune the normal mode enrage timers in 10mans for 3 healers standard. I really dislike 10man healing because I find that the hots on the whole raid /amount of backup healing are so much lower in comparison to 25mans. Let me stress that I said normal 10mans because 2 healing for a casual guild that can barely make enrage timers even with 2 healing it is hell on earth for me personally. I've always raided 40/25 mans up until this expansion and I never found it a problem to cast a channeled manahymn for example. If you do that on let's say elegon you are really stressing the other healer. With 3 those problems would be way less severe because there is always a "backup" healer.

    You can counter it a bit by bringing a disc priest who still puts out dps that helps the raid greatly but should we really be forced to take a disc as our 3rd healer?

  6. #6
    Field Marshal Wheater's Avatar
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    We run 2 tanks, 1 with good dps os. 3 heals, 1 with dps os (ranged), 1 with tank os. Just because you never know when a tank might be gone.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    I think it also depends on, how serious you're raiding?

    In my own guild, we have 2 tanks, 6 dps and 4 healers. So even though we have to rotate healers, we make sure that we always have enough. We have a dps with a decent healing OS, we have socials/backup raiders ready to step in as well.

    But for your average setup, I'd go with 3 healers tbh. And I do agree that the trend in MoP with only 2 healers per fight is kinda screwing with the raid setup.

  8. #8
    There are more three heal fights than two heal fights, but just barely.

    For this tier at least, I think it'll be better to have the player play main spec healing, with a DPS off-spec. With low gear levels, it's much harder for a healer with unoptimized gear to put out competitive healing throughput versus a DPS with unoptimized gear.

    Next tier, if spirit levels on gear go high enough, you could probably flip it. Right now, thing are already starting to get to that point, but I don't think we'll safely be there until close to the end of the tier.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHsname View Post
    There are more three heal fights than two heal fights, but just barely.

    For this tier at least, I think it'll be better to have the player play main spec healing, with a DPS off-spec. With low gear levels, it's much harder for a healer with unoptimized gear to put out competitive healing throughput versus a DPS with unoptimized gear.

    Next tier, if spirit levels on gear go high enough, you could probably flip it. Right now, thing are already starting to get to that point, but I don't think we'll safely be there until close to the end of the tier.
    I'm not sure I agree that there's more 3 healing fights than 2 tbh. Several of the fights on Heroic just can't be done with 3 healers, unless your dps are really geared (have been lucky with gear), other wise you won't make the enrage timer.

  10. #10
    Unless you have 10 raiders that show up every single raid day the best setup has always been along the lines of... 2 tanks 2 healers 10 DPS (at least 1 with great heal OS, and 1 with great tank OS).

    We have 3 tanks, 3 healers, 9 DPS & it's a real pain to gear up the tanks & healers because simply put they're not required most of the time. It's just quite difficult finding a good DPS with heal OS. We have a few but they just happen to also be our best DPS (by a large margin) so having them swap is less than optimal.

    For the record, in MSV boss 3/4/5/6 is 2 heal boss 1/2 3 heal. In HoF boss 1/2/3/4/5 is 2 heal, boss 6 is 3 heal. In ToES boss 1/4 maybe 3 is 2 heal, boss 2 is 3 heal. It is viable to 3 heal boss 3 in MSV, boss 1/2 in HoF.

  11. #11
    Being 6/6H, 3/6H and 4/4N this is how we heal the figts:

    Mogu'shan:
    Stone Guard; 3 healers
    Feng; 3 healers
    Gara'jal; 3 healers
    Spirit Kings; 2 healers
    Elegon; 2 healers
    Will; 3 healers

    Heart of Fear:
    Zor'lok; 3 healers
    Blade Lord; 3 healers
    Garalon; 3 healers
    Wind Lord; 3 healers
    Amber-Shaper; 2 healers
    Empress; 3 healers

    Terrace:
    Protectors; 2 healers
    Tsulong; 2 healers
    Lei Shi; 2 healers
    Sha; 2 healers

  12. #12
    2 tanks 1 w/ dps os
    3 healers 1 w/ dps os
    6 dps 1 w/ heal os and 1 w/ tank os



    thats the roster we run it works pretty well

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    I'm not sure I agree that there's more 3 healing fights than 2 tbh. Several of the fights on Heroic just can't be done with 3 healers, unless your dps are really geared (have been lucky with gear), other wise you won't make the enrage timer.
    ^^^

    Very few fights actually HAVE to be 3 healed, unless your dps are exceptional and your healers are not.



    We 2 heal 6/6H MV, but we 3 healed feng first week.

    We 2 heal every fight except heroic vizier (CAN be 2healed) and empress in HoF (4/6H).
    *edit* we just 2 healed normal Empress so I thought i'd amend post!

    We 2 heal every fight in ToeS, but we 3 healed Tsulong first week (no heroics).

    *edit* so in conclusion; you can 2 heal every normal mode and most heroics.
    Last edited by PalawinFC; 2012-11-26 at 12:40 PM.

  14. #14
    High Overlord
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    Based on our first kills:

    MSV
    SG: 3 heals
    Feng: 3 heals
    Garajal: 2 heals
    Spirit Kings: 2 heals
    Elegon: 2 heals
    Will: 2 heals

    HoF
    Imperial: 3 heals
    Blade-lord: 2 heals
    Garalon: 2 heals
    Windlord: 3 heals
    Amber-shaper: 2 heals

    We use resto druid, disc priest and holy paladin (me), and the disc priest going shadow for the 2 heal fights. Works good for us.


  15. #15
    Field Marshal Dre4m's Avatar
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    If you are talking about just straight out maximizing the setup for each boss during progression then you should have a roster of atleast 15-18 people with wellgeared alts for as many diffrent classes/speccs as possible to utilize the OPness of a certain ability/class/specc on any given encounter.

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