Sasquatch seems to be real. No, really.

[Garnier Fructis]

Well Dr. Ketchum was on the radio last night and that is her claim that they submited to dozens of scientific journals and only one went through the peer review process. but their lawyers told them not to publish the paper last minute. So they took the peer reviewed paper and published it themselves.

And what reason is there to believe this claim?

[zorkuus]

they would not even look at it. Every single journal they went to would not even look at the data.

Because their claims were ridiculous. If they wanted to have any sort of credibility they should've said it's an unknown hominid but yet they insist on Sasquatch.

[Gamdwelf]

Because their claims were ridiculous. If they wanted to have any sort of credibility they should've said it's an unknown hominid but yet they insist on Sasquatch.

Well then you go buy the paper and read it I literally don't have the 30 bucks right now to buy the stupid paper.

Becaues I don't think they ever claimed the hair was from bigfoot that was the media when this story first came out.

[Sayl]

I've actually been trying all day to get an actual copy of the research so I can read it before making a decision about it, unlike most people in this thread who that just dismiss it even though they didn't even do the DNA testing themselves they sent samples out to different universities etc that can do DNA testing. The only problem they had was getting it published.

I get the idea that you're not familiar with Ketchum and her history, or at the very least the background of this story about her paper. (Or, perhaps you are and you're just tuning all that out.) This isn't a scenario where a respected scientist with an established track record in her field is being unfairly ganged up on by the scientific community. A desire to be open-minded about stuff like this is all well and good, but you shouldn't be overly charitable or naive about it considering the multitude of red flags prominently flapping in the breeze.

This really isn't about science as much as it is attracting publicity for the "documentary" Ketchum is trying to market.

If she and her buddies actually have samples of a bigfoot/sasquatch type creature, all they have to do is submit those themselves for independent testing, which would be the quickest way to try and corroborate their claims. An actual discovery of such a species would obviously be huge news. But or course, they won't do that -- instead we're expected to navigate through this charade of her own claims and analysis. Dismissal is justified on that basis alone.

But if you're after commentary from actual scientists with the necessary expertise in genetics, we have some already by people who have gotten access to the paper, and there will be more responses this week. It's rather predictable:

To state the obvious, no data or analyses are presented that in any way support the claim that their samples come from a new primate or human-primate hybrid. Instead, analyses either come back as 100% human, or fail in ways that suggest technical artifacts. They make the bizarre claim that the failures might be caused by novel, nonstandard structure of the DNA (“Electron micrographs of the DNA revealed unusual double strand – single strand – double strand transitions which may have contributed to the failure to amplify during PCR.”) which would mean this DNA was different from DNA in all other known species. There’s also the strange statement they couldn’t deposit sequences in GenBank because it’s a new/unknown taxon — GenBank does that no problem.

Back to Ars Technica, in case you didn't catch it:

Figures in the paper show everything from iconic large footprints to old engravings of mythical ape-like creatures. There's even a photo of what seems to be a very shaggy carpet sleeping in the woods (with an embedded video, naturally).



The researchers (primarily a mix of forensics experts) have been collecting alleged bigfoot samples for years, accepting submissions from across North America. These include everything from stray hairs to clumps of fur with flesh attached to a pool of blood (collected after—wait for it—a sasquatch chewed on a pipe).

If this sort of stuff doesn't arouse your suspicion, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Today I have been emailing back and forth all day with the support person at DeNovo trying to get a copy of it, but they won't relent unless I pay which is bullshit.

Good luck with that.

That's why I want to see the paper to see who actually peer reviewed it.

We already know the answer to this: nobody did. Only after they bought and made up their own journal (hoping to score $30 off the credulous in the process) is Ketchum claiming that their results are being submitted for independent analysis. As is the case with a myriad of other claims she's made, we don't even know if that's true.

[Urti]

Well Dr. Ketchum was on the radio last night and that is her claim that they submited to dozens of scientific journals and only one went through the peer review process. but their lawyers told them not to publish the paper last minute. So they took the peer reviewed paper and published it themselves.

This reminds me very much of the raelians who claimed they had cloned a human, but insisted the science community just "totally take our word for it". Or the korean cloning scandal.

[zorkuus]

Well then you go buy the paper and read it I literally don't have the 30 bucks right now to buy the stupid paper.

What are you talking about? The people who made this "discovery" are charging people to see it, is that what you're saying? And you still think it's not a scam? OMFG

Becaues I don't think they ever claimed the hair was from bigfoot that was the media when this story first came out.

So that must be the reason why they call for constitutional rights for Sasquatch?

[Sayl]

Well Dr. Ketchum was on the radio last night...

Yeah, Coast to Coast AM -- a veritable fountain of scientific knowledge. Not.

More self-promotion, and to the most credulous audience possible.

[Gamdwelf]

Yeah, Coast to Coast AM -- a veritable fountain of scientific knowledge. Not.

More self-promotion, and to the most credulous audience possible.

Well I don't discount people who are on there just because its coast to coast. Bill Nye was on coast to coast a few months ago.

[Urti]

Well I don't discount people who are on there just because its coast to coast. Bill Nye was on coast to coast a few months ago.

Man, Coast to Coast is great for what it is. I've spent many overnight drives listening to psychics, conspiracy wonks, and abduction victims, but reputable science outlet it ain't. If Bill Nye was on there, it must have been to fulfill some community service obligation.

[Gamdwelf]

Man, Coast to Coast is great for what it is. I've spent many overnight drives listening to psychics, conspiracy wonks, and abduction victims, but reputable science outlet it ain't. If Bill Nye was on there, it must have been to fulfill some community service obligation.

Well kinda depends, when the Tsunami hit Japan, they got callers from japan with live updates in the middle of the night. That was kinda super interesting to listen to.

[Sayl]

Becaues I don't think they ever claimed the hair was from bigfoot that was the media when this story first came out.

Go back and look at last November's vanity press release. That's exactly what they said.

Our study has sequenced 20 whole mitochondrial genomes and utilized next generation sequencing to obtain 3 whole nuclear genomes from purported Sasquatch samples.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 04:18 PM ----------

Well I don't discount people who are on there just because its coast to coast. Bill Nye was on coast to coast a few months ago.

Bill Nye doesn't go on Coast to Coast AM to make nonsensical claims. He and a few other non-tinfoil people have been featured on the program in the past to debunk various nonsense, but those instances are few and far between.

[lockedout]

if its a human hybrid then whos been sleeping with the yeti guys O-O

Guilty as charged.

[Urti]

Guilty as charged.

I'm not gonna judge. Those Pacific Northwest nights can get mighty cold....

[Sayl]

Out of curiosity (and because I'm a glutton for punishment), I went back and listened to Ketchum speak on Coast to Coast AM. Putting aside all these shenanigans with her journal and paper, she's still claiming that (multiple) sasquatch live on the land she leases, and that she has seen, photographed, and interacted with them. Think about that for a minute: she's claiming to have routine observation of and contact with an undocumented, intelligent bipedal species of ape-like creature which has somehow completely evaded detection or documentation.

If any of that were remotely true, why is there absolutely zero corroboration? Why doesn't she invite anyone out for verification? If any of this were really happening, it'd be pretty simple to show it. Instead, we get a maze of excuses, nonsense, and contradictory statements.

This woman is either completely delusional, a fraud, or perhaps both.

[Gamdwelf]

Out of curiosity (and because I'm a glutton for punishment), I went back and listened to Ketchum speak on Coast to Coast AM. Putting aside all these shenanigans with her journal and paper, she's still claiming that (multiple) sasquatch live on the land she leases, and that she has seen, photographed, and interacted with them. Think about that for a minute: she's claiming to have routine observation of and contact with an undocumented, intelligent bipedal species of ape-like creature which has somehow completely evaded detection or documentation.

If any of that were remotely true, why is there absolutely zero corroboration? Why doesn't she invite anyone out for verification? If any of this were really happening, it'd be pretty simple to show it. Instead, we get a maze of excuses, nonsense, and contradictory statements.

This woman is either completely delusional, a fraud, or perhaps both.

Man I must fall asleep before she got the crazy stuff.

[Sayl]

Man I must fall asleep before she got the crazy stuff.

Crazy is her default speed, and that's what I've been trying to emphasize. This is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg, too, because this pattern of behavior on her part has been going on for years. Hopefully you have a better idea now of what she's all about.

It's not that scientific journals aren't receptive to her paper because of the subject matter; after all, any real discovery of a species like she's describing would obviously be huge. The resistance she's experienced is due to her demonstrably unscientific methodology, and that she's using it as a springboard to jump to ridiculous conclusions. For example, her insistence that "sasquatch" evolution does not follow "Darwinian evolution" (WTF?!). Special snowflake syndrome, apparently... this one supposed species on the planet doesn't abide by the same evolutionary biology as the ~9 million others.

We haven't even touched on her newly-launched companion entity: "The Melba Ketchum Global Sasquatch Foundation". Yeah, that just oozes scientific objectivity.

[superstarz]

whats with all the people saying i dont believe it until i see it.
i bet you guys are the same people who believe in religion.
but we have never seen god or jesus so why believe in religion?

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

whats with all the people saying i dont believe it until i see it.
i bet you guys are the same people who believe in religion.
but we have never seen god or jesus so why believe in religion?

Are you for real? Not believing something until you see it is the exact opposite of religion.

[Garnier Fructis]

whats with all the people saying i dont believe it until i see it.
i bet you guys are the same people who believe in religion.
but we have never seen god or jesus so why believe in religion?

I'm sure your premises are wrong.

[Deleted]

Don't bring religion up since it has nothing to do with this.