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  1. #1
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Boss Stats - # of Wipes to Kill

    Anyone happen to know numbers on how many attempts certain bosses took? I'm trying to see if perceptions match facts and I've had some good debates lately.

    I really want to try to figure out how many wipes it took before top 10-ish guilds managed to kill:

    -Viscidus (I have a theory in Viscidus based on my experiences in Vanilla, least killed boss?)
    -Ouru
    -C'thun (but we all know how that went, with the staged nerf)
    -4 Horsemen (40)
    -Kel'thuzad (40)
    -Kael'thas
    -Vashj
    -Illidan
    -M'uru (very much guild killer)
    -Kil'jaeden
    -Yogg 1
    -Yogg 0
    -Algalon (should be weird numbers due to 1hr lockout)
    -LK Hard Mode
    -Sinestra (200 is the ballpark guess)
    -Heroic Rag (400 is the ballpark guess)
    -Heroic Spine (300 is ballpark)
    -Heroic Madness (100ish?)

    See, when I think "man I beat my head against this content for weeks before seeing the kill" I think of the old 40-mans, but then again I wasn't in a top tier guild and I don't remember much other than Nihilum was on C'thun when we were wiping to Sartura. There are notable kills and tough races, but I want some numbers to help settle the debates... which boss took the MOST wipes on average for top guilds?

  2. #2
    From memory, Paragon said they had ~500 ish wipes on Heroic Ragnaros.

    Spine ~400 is a solid guestimate, I don't honestly remember for us but sounds about right.

    KIN RAIDERS stated something around ~130 ish wipes or so on Madness, maybe a little less.

  3. #3
    Kil'jaeden: some 50-55 hours of attempts for SK gaming world first (almost continuous no-sleep, this was possibly the biggest no-life race of all time)
    Algalon: 3-4 hours for Ensidia world first
    Yogg 0: 500 wipes for Stars world first
    LK heroic: 170 wipes for Paragon world first (limited attempts)
    Last edited by Vandit; 2012-01-06 at 08:42 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandit View Post
    (almost continuous no-sleep, this was possibly the biggest no-life race of all time)
    haha, this line cracked me up ;d

  5. #5
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Everything sounds about right, just need some vanilla stats now, those days are a blur.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Nosonia's Avatar
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    Well C'thun took over 3 months to kill from its release date (Jan 2006). I believe that twin emps went down in late march and c'thun only got killed mid way through april. However, this was a bugged encounter.

  7. #7
    While i like the idea of this thread i have to wonder if its applicable. Boss fights may have taken longer to down back in Vanilla but your also looking at having more people in raids that can fail, classes were less homogenized so you needed certain classes, and were the top guilds nearly as competitive with each other?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosonia View Post
    Well C'thun took over 3 months to kill from its release date (Jan 2006). I believe that twin emps went down in late march and c'thun only got killed mid way through april. However, this was a bugged encounter.
    indeed, very bugged, so bugged in fact, after it was hotfixed the boss was downed in a matter of hours after that fix, four horseman holds the longest time in between release and kill (7 weeks) i dont believe it took so long to kill the twin emperors but i am not sure

  9. #9
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matriste View Post
    While i like the idea of this thread i have to wonder if its applicable. Boss fights may have taken longer to down back in Vanilla but your also looking at having more people in raids that can fail, classes were less homogenized so you needed certain classes, and were the top guilds nearly as competitive with each other?
    Good thought however I think raid size ideally would not play a role in expected time to defeat the content.

    Classes less homogenized so you needed certain classes? Haha, tell that to the 10 mages on heroic spine. This tier revived absurd gains from stacking certain classes or 4 piece bonuses. Poor restoration druids have to go feral now just so they can be a raid cooldown.

  10. #10
    Tribute to immortality was the hardest raid. Only 3 guilds did it and it took bloody ages before ensidia got the world first.

  11. #11
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boggle View Post
    Tribute to immortality was the hardest raid. Only 3 guilds did it and it took bloody ages before ensidia got the world first.
    Interesting point but that's more of an achievement than defeating the encounter itself.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Good thought however I think raid size ideally would not play a role in expected time to defeat the content.

    Classes less homogenized so you needed certain classes? Haha, tell that to the 10 mages on heroic spine. This tier revived absurd gains from stacking certain classes or 4 piece bonuses. Poor restoration druids have to go feral now just so they can be a raid cooldown.
    His point (or my point at least) is that you can't make much of a comparison simply due to the fact that vanilla raiding was a totally different ballgame, it was basically about a handful of good guilds venturing to the unknown, instead of the "check boss abilities, maximize dps/hps, min-max everything, find your way past overpowered mechanics, use/make mods for everything" that it's know. I can almost guarantee that if you would take something like a combo of Paragon+Method, have them timetravel to 2006 and have the exact same gear and everything that the players that time had, they would beat the "impossible" pre-nerf c'thun in a week and the four horsemen even faster.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Boggle View Post
    Tribute to immortality was the hardest raid. Only 3 guilds did it and it took bloody ages before ensidia got the world first.
    great deal more than 3 guilds did immortallity.

  14. #14
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vandit View Post
    His point (or my point at least) is that you can't make much of a comparison simply due to the fact that vanilla raiding was a totally different ballgame, it was basically about a handful of good guilds venturing to the unknown, instead of the "check boss abilities, maximize dps/hps, min-max everything, find your way past overpowered mechanics, use/make mods for everything" that it's know. I can almost guarantee that if you would take something like a combo of Paragon+Method, have them timetravel to 2006 and have the exact same gear and everything that the players that time had, they would beat the "impossible" pre-nerf c'thun in a week and the four horsemen even faster.
    Okay that's a more reasonable clarification. So the game evolves, right? The debate I keep having is that content is "easier" now, when I'm not so sure that's the case. I tend to argue that it's just different.

    -Less bosses now, but lots of wipes to kill the heroics
    -Bring the player goal is the opposite of the result, now it's bring the class comp, rotations that meet dps checks are easy (even people in my guild rank, and we're world 300 something)

    I try to tell my guild members to think of it like this: Dragon Soul has 16 bosses, Being at 3/8 heroic really means you're 11/16.

    Though I will say in Vanilla min/max was very real, and I was part of it as a healer, but to get an entire guild on that par was borderline impossible. That said, for some reason DS really does feel cheapened somehow, and it's going to be tough to get people to stick around for Heroic Spine when we're just a mid-level guild.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta333 View Post
    great deal more than 3 guilds did immortallity.
    11 guilds is a great deal more

    http://www.wowprogress.com/achievement/4079

  16. #16
    Ah indeed I was wrong, only 2 guilds did the achievment. Patch 3.3.0 came out on the 8th december 2009. So while tribute to immortality was the current raiding tier, only Ensidia and Might managed to get it down.

    I understand the point that it was an achievement rather than a specific boss. But all the same I think it was the hardest feat to accomplish.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by -Cynical- View Post
    11 guilds is a great deal more

    http://www.wowprogress.com/achievement/4079
    Even more than that since if you look it stopped tracking the kills. I even talked to other guild that i saw had it in thier armoury and proved that wowprogress didnt track it anymore. I think the number is around 50 or so.

    I had a hunter in my guild from Cuties who told and showed us that they had goten it, not once but twice and they arnt on there.

  18. #18
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Well on that note you could just make up a hard feat like... 25-man Yogg with only druids! That's been my critique of the achievement system, closes off creative minds :P Anyone remember the 40-druid Onyxia? Fun times they were.

    So nobody thinks Sunwell, for example, took more effort than Heroic DS?

  19. #19
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    these might help you abit

    http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/163...rld_first_list

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ed-the-longest.

    Quote Originally Posted by TatManTat View Post
    four horseman holds the longest time in between release and kill (7 weeks) i dont believe it took so long to kill the twin emperors but i am not sure
    nope!
    Last edited by cyqu; 2012-01-06 at 08:41 PM.

  20. #20

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