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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNationGamer View Post
    It's not a Major American holiday (my opinion)...All you do is eat and spend a hour or so bonding...that's it
    There's really not much debate to be had over it, it IS a major American holiday whether or not you agree. Might as well say Christmas isn't a major holiday because all you do is exchange a couple gifts and spend some time bonding or that Independence Day isn't a major holiday because all you do is light a couple fireworks and spend some time bonding.

    To claim it's not one of, if not the, biggest holidays in America is rather short sighted to be frank.

    Also, grats DREAM Paragon on your kill. Well done
    Last edited by jaricOrgana; 2012-11-25 at 07:33 PM.

  2. #282
    IT's NOT THE SAME BOSS! Why is it so hard to see!?

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by nehunter View Post
    IT's NOT THE SAME BOSS! Why is it so hard to see!?
    Theres overlap.
    Like the name of the boss, and blizzards tuning effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRet

    "This server shutdown was so epic not even Illidan was prepared for it"

  4. #284
    So I just came from work... And saw that Paragon got the most important world first in this tier again.
    I do not even bother to see the further pages in this topic except for the first, but what needs to be said is: still a bit better than Method, still more dedicated and more skilled players, still in a league of their own, EVEN in 10man.

    If you want to believe the results had been any different if they were 25man, you can go ahead and cherish your illusions

    Also haha @ BL fans.

    And a big fat grats to the best guild in the world.

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    So I just came from work... And saw that Paragon got the most important world first in this tier again.
    I do not even bother to see the further pages in this topic except for the first, but what needs to be said is: still a bit better than Method, still more dedicated and more skilled players, still in a league of their own, EVEN in 10man.

    If you want to believe the results had been any different if they were 25man, you can go ahead and cherish your illusions

    Also haha @ BL fans.

    And a big fat grats to the best guild in the world.
    Do you even play at a level where you think you know what you're talking about?

  6. #286
    What gets me is a majority of the 15 pages here are full of "10s dont count" people. Those people obviously play 25s.

    29786 guilds have killed Stone Guard 10 man. Minimum 297,860 players.
    2313 guilds have killed Stone Guard 25 man. Minimum 57,825 players.

    4.6 10 man raiders for every 1 25 man raider.

    Yet these forums feel like all 57,000 individual 25 man raiders post here to complain that 10 mans "dont count"

    The obvious majority of 10 man raiders are "Casual", compared to "hardcore" 25 man group. Casual players just don't do 25 man anymore, as they fit easier into 2 day a week, 2 hour a night guilds. No 25 man guild is going to have that kind of schedule. Also, Hardcore players are more likely to post on the forums than Joe Green from <Random 10man>.

    The difficulties are equal. Period. I'd say end of story, but it won't matter.


    That being said.

    Grats Paragon! World First! Grats Method! World Second!
    Last edited by Shaley; 2012-11-25 at 09:39 PM.

  7. #287
    People are saying "10man don;t count" because all guilds that race for World First play in 25man format. World first is not something they do by accident. It doesn't matter why call it just an unofficial agreement. This tier Paragon saw that they can't compete in this format and forfeit from the 25man race.

    Let's make this analogy: you are at the Olympics 100m race, and 1 racer suddenly decides, "I'm not gonna race side by side with the others, I'm gonna go to another stadium you guys just film me from there!"

    Now even if that guy gets world record time alone, he still doesn't get a gold medal for that. Agree?

    Paragon was awesome nonetheless! But to have a fair comparison all the world first guilds have to play in the same format, I hope they will get more and better recruits for the next tier.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by narve View Post
    looks like paragon got the world first kill gratz:P

    continue shifting through this thread and catch each person responsible for their involvement in de-railing, trolling, flaming, essentially breaking rules.
    Grats to paragon.
    A moderator should moderate not specifically go looking for things that "might" cross the line. It's nice to know there are moderators should people get out of hand but no one wants to feel like they can't post something funny or off beat because coming in here waving your ban hammer around is doing just that. No reason to point out the obvious time and time again just to make your presence felt.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by nehunter View Post
    People are saying "10man don;t count" because all guilds that race for World First play in 25man format.
    Well that's their problem, isn't it? Whatever gets the race done the fastest has always been their philosophy. They've exploited, they've run multiple raids to gear up a main roster, they've done all sorts of stuff that no "normal" guilds do just to be the first in the race. Why do we suddenly draw the line on changing raid size? There's a lot you can do to make the encounters easier, changing raid size should be just one trick in the book.

    In WotLK the potential to kill bosses faster by downsizing the raid didn't really exist for world first guilds since 25 man gave better loot and 10 mans were undertuned for it, meaning that 10 man was what guilds like Paragon facerolled for practice first.

    Let's make this analogy: you are at the Olympics 100m race, and 1 racer suddenly decides, "I'm not gonna race side by side with the others, I'm gonna go to another stadium you guys just film me from there!"
    Here's a more appropriate analogy: let's say the other guys doing the race want to run with a ball chain on their leg. Of course the guy without a ball chain wins. Should the others complain about losing because of their completely optional choice of handicap in the race?

    Sure, you can decide that there's a separate race for doing it with a handicap, but what most of us care about is the absolute first, no matter how they cheesed their way to the first spot (as long as it's not an obvious exploit of course).

    Now even if that guy gets world record time alone, he still doesn't get a gold medal for that. Agree?
    Not the slightest bit. If the other guilds decide to handicap themselves by bringing along 15 inferior players that slow them down, that is their problem.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by nehunter View Post
    Let's make this analogy: you are at the Olympics 100m race, and 1 racer suddenly decides, "I'm not gonna race side by side with the others, I'm gonna go to another stadium you guys just film me from there!"
    The difference is blizzard has 2 formats. If the olypmics had a seperate format so people could run a lone and still be timed then it would count but they don't so your analogy makes 0 sense. Do you read what you write?

  11. #291
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    People who complain that 25 man is harder then 10 man and vise versa, shut the f*** up. It doesn't matter world first mean whoever kills x boss first imo. If you haven't put in the time to become a top tier raiding participant you have no right to complain. Congrats Paragon.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    The difference is blizzard has 2 formats. If the olypmics had a seperate format so people could run a lone and still be timed then it would count but they don't so your analogy makes 0 sense. Do you read what you write?
    Do you? You can't time the runs unless you have the same parameters.

  13. #293
    Stood in the Fire Grap's Avatar
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    gz @ paragon. nice work this tier
    Ahdehl: Sit melee, bring ranged. Unless it was Garalon.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by nehunter View Post
    Do you? You can't time the runs unless you have the same parameters.
    So dont fucking compare them? Paragon got world first 10man kill, if you dont care, why do people spend time posting "25 is harder" or "it doesnt matter". It doesnt matter which one is harder. Paragon still killed it FIRST in TEN MAN and YOU CANNOT compare it to 25man.

    Sure 25 man has tougher competition, but IT DOESNT MATTER. Do you say "In Olympics 400 meter doesnt matter because world fastest man, Usain Bolt, doesnt run that". They are two different categories, SO DONT COMPARE.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by nehunter View Post
    Do you? You can't time the runs unless you have the same parameters.
    Which parameters? A track with 100 yards marked off? Or does it have to have a audience? I don't understand.

  16. #296
    The fair thing to say is Heroic 10man sha died before Heroic 25man sha. Everything else is just OUR primitive speculation. Bosses don't always turn out on the same difficulty Blizz intends to tune. Although it seems to me they are getting closer and are monitoring/hotfixing faster.

  17. #297
    Heres a better Olypmic analogy even though analogy's never work out.

    I run the 100 meter against 24 other people and my time is 45 seconds.
    You run 100 meter race against 9 other people and your time is 40 seconds.
    I am obviously the better 100 meter runner right?

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iso View Post
    There's two world firsts now, 25 and 10. Paragon got the 10man. No need to sway e-peens around or pretend the fight is a cakewalk on either setting.
    nah, there can only be one world first.

    Gratz Paragon!

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Heres a better Olypmic analogy even though analogy's never work out.

    I run the 100 meter against 24 other people and my time is 45 seconds.
    You run 100 meter race against 9 other people and your time is 40 seconds.
    I am obviously the better 100 meter runner right?
    Good analogy actually. You won your race! I won my race! There is nothing more to say.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Heres a better Olypmic analogy even though analogy's never work out.

    I run the 100 meter against 24 other people and my time is 45 seconds.
    You run 100 meter race against 9 other people and your time is 40 seconds.
    I am obviously the better 100 meter runner right?
    Except you can compare the results because you run the same distance(same skill required)

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