DREAM Paragon World first Heroic Sha of Fear

[artem123]

Even if it was so, they are less spectacular, take less organization effort, and are just 10 man kills. There's very little to be excited about.

P.S. Waiting for a real 25 man kill next.

Lol, because you OBVIOUSLY can take more deaths in a 10man and survive right? 10players not messing up at all is def harder then having 4-5 messing not messing up, maybe less even.

[Zoma]

I find it very odd that MMO-Champ didn't start separating 10 man from 25 mans in world first progression until Paragon went 10 man...

They did it in T13, when DREAM Paragon was still 25. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...eathwing-Video

I don't think they did it for T12 though

[MAGAmobile]

Not sure if a group of hardcore raiders should be given much of a grats for taking the easy way out. Ask yourself this- would Paragon have been able to kill this boss on 25 faster than they did on 10 if they remained a 25 man guild? The answer to that question is obvious. It also tells you which mode is harder to progress in, regardless of the reasons behind it.

So they still would of killed it first because they're in a league of their own regardless of raid size and proved it throughout all of cata and almost all of wrath expect for 1 tier... pretty sure you're full of shit.

[Bodom]

Not sure if a group of hardcore raiders should be given much of a grats for taking the easy way out. Ask yourself this- would Paragon have been able to kill this boss on 25 faster than they did on 10 if they remained a 25 man guild? The answer to that question is obvious. It also tells you which mode is harder to progress in, regardless of the reasons behind it.

They were pretty much unbeatable when they were 25 man, so what do you think?

[Deleted]

What a disappointing tier. Not a single hard boss.

[Washuwa]

http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/...ting.tier14_10

check how many pull paragon took in 10 man to kill the 2nd boss in heroic... ys 10 man is harder than 25...

[Saffa]

I would have a lot more respect for all the ones who are sneering over this world first if I thought they were in the guild that is going to get the first 25 win. However, I should think they will never be near the first 5,000 for 10 or 25 so they can be safely ignored as jealous losers

[Velshin]

For those ppl who keep saying 10 man who cares and stuff.. I will say this:

Doesn't matter if it's 10 man or 25 world first is world first end of story Gratz Dream Paragon.

[Reikk]

I don't think anyone is saying that they didn't technically kill this boss first. Still, a lot of people are waiting for the first kill on the hardest difficulty for this boss. Even Paragon demonstrated which mode is harder, given that they dropped to 10 man because they wouldn't be able to progress at an acceptable rate in 25s.

Yeah they would be unable to progress at an acceptable rate, cause they have been so bad as a 25 man. Oh wait, top guild T11 and T12, and top 5 T13. Clearly they sucked as a 25.

Some people like 10 man more, no need to hold it against people for trying to have fun.

[Shampro]

What a disappointing tier. Not a single hard boss.

Link me your parses and armory please

[Dynamik]

What a disappointing tier. Not a single hard boss.

As said by someone still 4/6 in Heroic MSV more than likely.

[Kaneiac]

What a disappointing tier. Not a single hard boss.

It's because Blizzard nerfed the fight. A fight that would have taken 2 weeks for the best of the best isn't what Blizzard does anymore.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

So they still would of killed it first because they're in a league of their own regardless of raid size and proved it throughout all of cata and almost all of wrath expect for 1 tier... pretty sure you're full of shit.

The question wasn't whether they would have killed it before any other guild. The question was whether, if Paragon stayed as a 25 man guild, they could have killed it as fast or faster on 25 than 10.

The answer is they probably would not have been able to. Paragon themselves said, when they were dropping to 10s, that they couldn't raid 25s at a level they would be satisfied with (but could do so on 10). That gives some insight into which mode is the mode that is harder to achieve progress (i.e. killing bosses as quickly as possible) in. Yes, you can explain away the specific reasons that they dropped to 10s (they couldn't recruit enough Finnish players, etc.), but all of that still goes to the overarching point here.

[Shampro]

Still waiting for your parses and Armory Snore.

[Deleted]

Link me your parses and armory please

I don't play WoW anymore. I don't have time for it. I'm just following the race and judging by the time it took to clear all the instances this is one of the easiest tiers ever. Disappointing.

[skitz0129]

The question wasn't whether they would have killed it before any other guild. The question was whether, if Paragon stayed as a 25 man guild, they could have killed it as fast or faster on 25 than 10.

The answer is they probably would not have been able to. Paragon themselves said, when they were dropping to 10s, that they couldn't raid 25s at a level they would be satisfied with (but could do so on 10). That gives some insight into which mode is the mode that is harder to achieve progress (i.e. killing bosses as quickly as possible) in.

They said they couldn't raid 25s anymore because a lot of their members weren't going to play seriously anymore. Nothing to do with their ability to perform. It was a logistical issue.

10 man and 25 man are both hard and both of high quality. Neither should be disrespected like these trash forums tend to do.

[Zoma]

http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/...ting.tier14_10

check how many pull paragon took in 10 man to kill the 2nd boss in heroic... ys 10 man is harder than 25...

It's not showing how many pulls yet for me, unless you mean the second boss of H HoF, in which case it only took the top 25 guilds 1 or 2 more attempts to beat than it took Paragon.

[pointlol]

You just proved his point , more people do 10man because it requires less people and is more easy. 10man heroic sha down , and not a single fuck was given that day, call me when its done on 25.

You actually have no idea

Please take a moment and stop drooling on yourself, check 10/25 heroic grand empress and sha of fear the damage on both of these fights is exactly the same.
Taking into account the fact that 25man have more cooldowns and can battle rez more players, the importance of each individuals skill in 10man > 25man. Im not saying that 10 man is thousands of times harder, at best both difficulties are about the same


What are Blizzards views on 25-man raiding? - Can anything be done to save 25-man raiding or make it more appealing? (Does Blizzard have something up their sleeves?) - What has caused 25-man raids to fade away?
In short, we're not satisfied with the current status of 25-player raids. There are clear logistical challenges to sustaining a 25-player raiding group. It's inherently 2.5 times as much churn, and thus 2.5 times as much recruitment needed. In terms of actual encounter difficulty, while we haven't always succeeded, we feel that we can deliver on a comparable experience between the two modes: 10-player raiding often involves greater personal responsibility, while 25-player raiding is more complex on a macro level (more moving pieces). Even perfect tuning doesn't compensate for the logistical difficulties, though.

[Shampro]

I don't play WoW anymore. I don't have time for it. I'm just following the race and judging by the time it took to clear all the instances this is one of the easiest tiers ever. Disappointing.

Your statement is void then. Good night.

[Zeelot]

The answer is they probably would not have been able to. Paragon themselves said, when they were dropping to 10s, that they couldn't raid 25s at a level they would be satisfied with (but could do so on 10). That gives some insight into which mode is the mode that is harder to achieve progress (i.e. killing bosses as quickly as possible) in.

That gives insight into how many skilled people they had that compared to the 10 they were deciding to do 10 man with, nothing else.