So my guild is currently 6/6HM 2/6HM and 4/4N - my mage is not in for all fights (alts and sat)
And I am noticing that the difficulty of the raids are all over the place.
The obvious one that has been discussed to death is spirit kings. ~290 wipes for a kill; compared to our 240 for heroic rag. Which is fine, if you want a challenge. but then you have 18 wipes for HM Elegon and 16 for HM Will of the Emperor.
Then you have Zor'lok which was ~150 and then garalon which was 9. I am unsure of where the difficulty curve is supposed to be, are some fights too hard or too easy. Are almost 300 attempts on "not an end boss" acceptable and what should be nerfed/buffed. OR is this difficulty spike across the board intentional? If so who is this pre-nerf content aimed at? Top 1% 5% or 10% ( we are sitting about top .55%-.7%)
ALSO please avoid posting LOL RAIDING SO EASY ALREADY CLEARED.
A) by literally the best players in the world
B) by two guilds who have raided 14-16 hours a day for over a month.
ALSO "LOL YOU JUST SUCK"
edit: I am not (again) commenting on the ability to toggle difficulty - I am pointing out there there is no real set difficulty for raid encounters they seem to go from insanely hard to relatively easy.
Last edited by Rekindled; 2012-11-27 at 05:57 AM.
Reason: I wish people would read and think about what has been written
true there is a lot of RNG. ESPECIALLY on kings. However, that is true of lots of bosses LK, Rag that are RNG dependent (I personally feel that rng is false difficulty and not fair to the player) However, that being said they are still legitimately hard fights. Sk in particular. The combination of tow bosses up at a time during transition is a heart attack waiting to happen.
Isn't it that kings/zorlok are heavy on rng, thus losing time on pulls that are in the ned useless ?
Plus on kings, the unfogiving mechanics (aka boom shield) tend to augment the number of failed pulls imho
This. Zorlok was fixed so it couldn't go the left anymore but only after 2-3 days, while Spirit Kings was almost impossible to kill without the proper boss combo (namely mind control guy last). This surely inflated the number of wipes on those 2 particular bosses for a lot of progression guilds.
290 wipes for kings seems a bit eccessive to me, but yeah sometime you simply find an encounter that your raid group keeps failing on and you can't do anything about it even if the boss isn't really that hard.
More on topic: I don't really care if the hard boss is the first or the last one of the instance as long as there's some challenge somewhere. Better an Imperial Vizier as first boss than no Imperial Vizier at all.
You have totally missed my point. I am wondering why the difficulty is so all over the shop. One fight makes you wanna kill someone and the next is so easy we accidentally the whole thing. Surely this can not be intentional, how can they have Spirit Kings be soul crushingly hard and then have Elegon H a, relative, pushover. Let alone will of the emperor. IMO they did not realize the difficulty of some fights and the ones that are taking a night or two to kill are in the correct place and the break your soul bosses need a nerf; WITH the exception of the end bosses. They should be hard... they are the end bosses
It's just how it's always been, and I don't agree with it. I would love linear difficulty increases throughout a raid but it never happens. Look at T11, ascendant council was pretty much the hardest boss of the tier, and it wasn't even an end boss. T12, staghelm was the 2nd to last, 2nd easiest boss in there. Beth'tilac, 2nd hardest in there, and it was one of the first bosses you got to.
I doubt there's a reason for it, they just can't tune bosses to get progressively harder due to the nature of some of their mechanics i suppose.
300 pulls seem a little extreme, we did 100 pulls before kill there on a week where we went 10man instead of 25man (we didnt kill Spirit Kings on 25man yet), and you have to keep in mind that around 70% "pulls" on spirit kings is reseting encounter when you get bad order (that is REALLY dumb from Blizzard.). But then again, when you compare that to only 26 wipes we had before killing Will of the Emperor 10man, it seems like Spirit Kings are kinda overtuned.
Linear difficulty bosses ended in TBC. That's why there's the Heroic toggle. You can do Zor'lok on normal and use those 200+ would-be wipes on downing the next 4 bosses on Heroic.
Heroic Spirit Kings is only hard on 25 man because of the shield instant-wipe mechanic. You'll have at least 6 shields throughout the encounter, and all it takes 1 person screwing up once to wipe. Maddening Shout + Shield = clusterfuck, so you literally need Meng to be last so realistically, 66% of your pulls will be resets.
worst raiding expansion so far. Can't say dragon soul was fun, but it was still better.
very good constructive criticsm.
as a member of a casual raid guild it really has been spiky, elegon and wind are 2 that have kept us occupied. id prefer straighter progression but the tuning overall is okay, wish i could comment on heroics
Originally Posted by Thage
6.1 convinced me to leave the game. 6.2 confirmed my choice.
I am not (again) commenting on the ability to toggle difficulty. For all i care the first boss in the instance can be the hardest. I am pointing out that the level of difficulty in certain instances spikes in a ridiculous fashion. Where every second or third boss is so harder than a catholic priest at alter-boy choir practice and the rest are as easy enough to bang out in one night.