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  1. #41
    TBH, I see that as a false perception, there are some artists and some developers who love it and want perfection, as an engineer I strive for the same. For every person there is who works hard and wants the best outcome, there is plenty of those that take the easy route.

    People are lazy, work is work, money is money...

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Shaman hybrid healing IS too strong. Maybe not as strong as shadow priest, but it's crazy strong. I understand why they're nerfing this, when I was able to, as Elemental, spam my 2s partner to full health in 2-3 Healing Surges consistently.

    Other issues with the specs are entirely separate from this particular issue, and this is not a targeted nerf at Shaman; it's a balance shift for all hybrids, since hybrids are intended to have SOME healing potential, but not STRONG healing potential. And really; Enhancement is doing fine. It's been fine in PvP, and is doing very well in PvE. I doubt this change (which isn't as egregious as people are making it out to be) will ruin Enhancement for PvP. The issue is primarily Elemental, and while it's going to hurt Elemental, the issue with that spec isn't that their healing isn't strong enough. Because the off-healing IS strong.
    I don't play elemental, but I seriously doubt you can top someone off with 3 heals unless they are starting with like 70% health. In a PvE environment as Enhancement, I have roughly 23,000 spell power and the Healing Storm glyph which increases my heals by 100% with 5 stacks of Maelstrom and on average my heals hit for 78,192 health and 118,368 on crits. In an arena setting, I don't think Elemental Shamans would get much higher than 23,000 spell power or have any talents or glyphs that would boost healing surge. So if you factor in the 15% healing nerf from PvP, a healing surge would heal for 43,201 on average and 64,801 on crits for an Elemental Shaman with 30% PvP power. After the PvP power nerf it will be 33,231 on average and 49,8461 on crits. If you were lucky and critted every single heal, it still wouldn't be overpowered in my eyes. So even unless Elemental Shamans have some talent, glyph, or modifier that I don't know about, I call BS on that topping people off with 2-3 heals. My math could be wrong so you guys might want to check it out.

  3. #43
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElintSlave View Post
    I don't play elemental, but I seriously doubt you can top someone off with 3 heals unless they are starting with like 70% health. In a PvE environment as Enhancement, I have roughly 23,000 spell power and the Healing Storm glyph which increases my heals by 100% with 5 stacks of Maelstrom and on average my heals hit for 78,192 health and 118,368 on crits. In an arena setting, I don't think Elemental Shamans would get much higher than 23,000 spell power or have any talents or glyphs that would boost healing surge. So if you factor in the 15% healing nerf from PvP, a healing surge would heal for 43,201 on average and 64,801 on crits for an Elemental Shaman with 30% PvP power. After the PvP power nerf it will be 33,231 on average and 49,8461 on crits. If you were lucky and critted every single heal, it still wouldn't be overpowered in my eyes. So even unless Elemental Shamans have some talent, glyph, or modifier that I don't know about, I call BS on that topping people off with 2-3 heals. My math could be wrong so you guys might want to check it out.
    Elemental Focus
    And people aren't starting from 0 health, since they'd be dead, usually closer to 30%. Even if we go by your numbers (servers are down, so I can't pop on to check my own), that's 2-3 heals once you factor in Elemental Focus.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And people aren't starting from 0 health, since they'd be dead, usually closer to 30%. Even if we go by your numbers (servers are down, so I can't pop on to check my own), that's 2-3 heals once you factor in Elemental Focus.
    I'm doing this with more accurate stats. My previous math had higher spellpower, with less PvP power. Here is a high rated Elemental Shaman - Slurk of Kilrog (can't post links ), and he has 359,273 health, 20,105 spellpower, 10.06% crit chance and 43.77% PvP power.

    Healing Surge - Heals a friendly target for 11687 to 13351 (+ 113.5% of Spellpower).

    Healing Surge (No Clearcasting) -13,351 + (1.135 * 20,105) = 36,171 (normal), 54,256.5 (Critical)
    Healing Surge (Clearcasting) - 36,171 * 1.5 = 54,256.5 (normal), 81,384.75 (Critical)
    Healing Surge (PvP environment) - ((0.4377-0.15)+1) * 36,171 = 46577.4 (Normal), 69,866 (Critical)
    Healing Surge (PvP environment + Clearcasting - 46,577.4 * 1.5 = 69,866(Normal), 104,799 (Critical)

    Best case scenario will heal for 279,464 (3 heal crits in a row). 279,464/359273 = 78% Healing. This is based on the health of the Shaman with no health buffs. Shamans however usually have the lowest of health pools, meaning the healing % will be a bit smaller on other classes. This is still good good amount of healing, but very unlikely. What are the chances that you will get 4 spell crits in a row at the time your off healing is needed with a 10.06% crit chance? After the nerf this will be greatly reduced. After the nerf, your best case scenario heals will be 188,718 at 52% of the health of the class with the lowest health for 3 heals. More realistically, you'll be healing 20% - 30% health with 3 heals. To me, that seems super weak.
    Last edited by Jinryu; 2012-11-27 at 05:53 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duronar View Post
    This is a huge nerf for enhancement and his response shows he doesn't care.
    I wouldn't go that far without being absolutely sure, but it definitely seems that way, on all available evidence. It's rather upsetting, as WoW has always been a game I loved - though the direction the devs have taken with it have put me off several times before - and I don't want it to be bad. I want to play it, but I don't know whether I'd be willing to play what will essentially become a free HK for the opposing side. There are many of us willing to work with Blizzard on the issue of Resto healing, but this nerf is totally unreasonable and they have had almost a week to respond to player concerns about this.
    #GamerGate has as much to do with misogyny and hatred as atheism has to do with the Big Bang Theory - belief in the BBT is completely separate to the assertion that there is no conclusive proof that any god exists. #GamerGate is about ethics in video game journalism. Misogyny is an optional extra of a vocal minority.

  6. #46
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    let's remove enha/ele spec for PvP, how about enha is becoming a tank spec, and ele is becoming another healer spec...seems fair to me since the only thing we are wanted for is our healing , and ALL the nerfs for enha/ele incoming and already in, are ment for Resto.

    So who is with me ? or make a giant tooltip at the start saying : " IF YOU WANT TO PLAY SHAMAN IN PVP GO RESTO BECAUSE WE KEEP NERFING THE FUCK OUT OF ENHA AND ELEM! If you don't like healing, don't level this class!" as a warning.

    any1 who dis aggrees with me and many others here saying enha is OP or in a good spot, you have no clue what you are talking about

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Bethan View Post
    Blizzard allready stated they won't do this, because it would add an absurd amount of complexity on a game that is already hard enough to understand. Adding lots of number tweaks everywhere wouldn't achieve much in pvp balance (the main issue being the huge skill range in the community, and the fact that players expect blizzard to tune every spec at every skill level), but would make it even harder for new player to understand their class and all the other possible spec they might encounter in pvp (and their cc, offensive/defensive cds, procs/cast to watch out for, etc...), and therefore greatly diminish the "attractiveness" of pvp for new players.
    Well, tell me. Do I really care, as a player, to understand how spells damage/healing is calculated? I don't think so unless I need to do some therycrafting. In that case...formulas are there for you, just modify it to reflect the changes.

    Balancing must be done at high skill cap...not at a low one. Because if you balance things at low skill the first player with a really high skill will dominate!

    Another thing, obviously you have to learn how to play a class/specc but I don't really understand how can some different formulas to calculate damage/healing done will change in anyway the behaviour of a spell! The mechanic it's the same, only the numbers will change and those numbers will change dinamically based on target. This does not impacts the gameplay and the difficulty to learn how the class/specc works . Is it so hard to understand?

    By doing this, you will balance everything and make balancing easier in the future, because my solution is better than nerfing, buffing, removing and change mechanic of a spell 5 times in a row to try to make it "compatible" with all the specs in game. Instead of wasting time by doing this, you will simly balance the spell versus different specs. This is the correct and logical solution to this problem!

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