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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    Not really. If there's even a half second delay from the next pull, there is always that DPS will start pulling. Either you somehow haven't seen it yet, or you're one of them.
    Half a second is a bit of a hyperbole, but in any case, why is the dps ahead of the tank in this situation? The tank shouldn't be giving them a chance to pull.

  2. #282
    High Overlord Kissme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadark View Post
    Story time:

    I leveled a paladin to 85 during cata as ret. I then decided I wanted to take advantage of the Call to Arms bonuses and switched her to prot to start tanking. I ran many dungeons and never had a problem.

    Fast forward to Mists, I made a monk and decided I wanted to level it as a tank. So I specced Brewmaster at 10 and began running dungeons at 15. I leveled that monk to 38 exclusively through dungeons and noticed a very irritating trend. In about 80-90% of the dungeons I have tanked, I would have one or more DPS in the group who would run ahead and pull groups before I could.

    Let me say a couple things here. Firstly, I've played a DPS main for 6 years now. I've made my share of mistakes and I always try to remember to apologize when I screw up. Secondly, I don't think I'm a slow tank. I do usually wait to pull a pack until the previous one is dead, but I also don't stop unless someone dies or the healer needs mana.

    Anyway, when faced with these DPS players, I would ask them politely to let me be the one to pull as it is my job as the tank and its a lot easier for me and for the healer when I'm the one who pulls groups. Occasionally (maybe once or twice) the group would listen and stop running ahead. However, the majority of the time, they would either ignore me completely, or actively throw it back in my face with something along the lines of "omg quit whining". So, eventually, I adopted a policy, and I usually try to mention it at the start of a dungeon, that if DPS are intentionally pulling groups before me, I won't tank that group.

    When I recently decided to server transfer, I didn't want to bother transferring a level 38 monk so I started a new one. Specced tank, queued for a dungeon at 15, and was immediately faced with a dps warrior who pulled groups and insulted me when I asked him to stop.

    I realize that its just low level dungeons and not really a big deal, but I have grown so tired of questing over the past 8 years playing this game, that I prefer to level through dungeons, but I really get turned off of tanking by this behavior (even though I love monk tanking).

    My question is, am I a jerk for refusing to tank groups when a DPS player intentionally pulls them before I can? Do I need to just suck it up and either learn to live with it, or respec dps or something?
    Does the whole group want you to go faster, or just the one DPS?

    If the whole group wants you to go faster, then you need to speed up. If it's just one impatient DPS, then have the healer stop healing him. Let him die. If he starts bitching out the rest of the group because he's dying, then kick him. Dungeons are a group activity, so you have to go at a pace that the whole group can accept. If the healer can't keep up, you slow down. If the group is constantly sitting with their thumb up their ass waiting on the tank, then the tank needs to speed up. It's not an either or scenario, rather it's a case by case basis.

    There's always the option to kick the player that makes the group's experience less than optimal - that might be the DPS in question, it might be you.

    Finally, low level dungeons are a joke when you consider the changes to character skills and talents, heirloom gear, and various scaling issues. If a DPS can pull the instance faster than you, tank all the mobs, and not die with minimal heals, then you need to go faster. The idea of CC and patience in dungeons died with TBC so you have to expect your groups to be full of impatient, minimally skilled people that want fast runs. The game evolved, you're just dealing with the result of that evolution.

  3. #283
    I get that it can be a pain to re-establish aggro on a group of mobs if someone else keeps making the pulls. And I get that, for low level dungeons, it doesn't actually matter. Heirlooms make that content trivial.

    But, part of the appeal of playing a tank is that you (ideally) get to be the one doing the pulls. It's an ego thing. If someone else is depriving you of that, they're making the game less fun for you, and by all means feel free to seek compensation however you see fit. The only thing to watch out for is that you'll start getting an annoying cooldown on your vote kick option if you use it often.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Half a second is a bit of a hyperbole, but in any case, why is the dps ahead of the tank in this situation? The tank shouldn't be giving them a chance to pull.
    I just got out of a dungeon where I was literally pulling as fast as I could, pulling multiple packs at once to AoE, and still DPS would leave the fight early and go onto the next one without me.

    Trust me, for some people, no speed is fast enough.

    I mean, I didn't gripe about it because I don't really care, but still.

  5. #285
    There was a time, before the Wrathbabies, where it was actually the DPS's job to pull, not the tanks.
    Think about that. It still works now in many, many situations. Especially with a hunter or rogue.

    Guess were the term "pull" comes from? From "I'm running into this group, taunting them, so heal me!"? Like a tank?
    No.

    Its from actually "pulling" them close to you, where the tank waits and catches them. Thats how it worked for years, and that's how it most often works again today. So stop whining and actually play, instead of thinking you know how to play best.
    Last edited by Bluegirl91; 2012-11-27 at 05:17 AM.

  6. #286
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl91 View Post
    There was a time, before the Wrathbabies, where it was actually the DPS's job to pull, not the tanks.
    Think about that. It still works now in many, many situations. Especially with a hunter or rogue.

    Guess were the term "pull" comes from? From "I'm running into this group, taunting them, so heal me!"? Like a tank?
    No.

    Its from actually "pulling" them close to you, where the tank waits and catches them. Thats how it worked for years, and that's how it most often works again today. So stop whining and actually play, instead of thinking you know how to play best.
    Having played pre wrath you are at the least exhagerating the commonality of allowing dps to initiate pulls. under certain circumstances yes but not as the norm. that was also when cc was needed. niether of those things are needed nor wanted today. so settle down and learn your place.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  7. #287
    The Patient Cuppy's Avatar
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    Nah, totally not a jerk. Just don't give a damn. It's impossible to make some people understand even the most simple things. Maybe they get it, maybe they don't, just don't think about it at all. Do your stuff, but don't stress and run after scattered mobs due to some moron :>
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Eater View Post
    Have you read the planned frost mage "nerfs" ?!? It's like nerfing a hangman's rope by coloring it blue.
    Mr. Smith about the cost of Triple-spec
    3k gold right off the bat, about 5 silver a week later.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl91 View Post
    There was a time, before the Wrathbabies, where it was actually the DPS's job to pull, not the tanks.
    Think about that. It still works now in many, many situations. Especially with a hunter or rogue.

    Guess were the term "pull" comes from? From "I'm running into this group, taunting them, so heal me!"? Like a tank?
    No.

    Its from actually "pulling" them close to you, where the tank waits and catches them. Thats how it worked for years, and that's how it most often works again today. So stop whining and actually play, instead of thinking you know how to play best.
    I think you're thinking of a different game. It was the exclusive way of getting enemies in FFXI, since parties were not mobile, somebody had to be dedicated to move.

  9. #289
    This is why Night Elves are the best tanks, cause we get Shadowmeld.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by wadark View Post
    Story time:

    I leveled a paladin to 85 during cata as ret. I then decided I wanted to take advantage of the Call to Arms bonuses and switched her to prot to start tanking. I ran many dungeons and never had a problem.

    Fast forward to Mists, I made a monk and decided I wanted to level it as a tank. So I specced Brewmaster at 10 and began running dungeons at 15. I leveled that monk to 38 exclusively through dungeons and noticed a very irritating trend. In about 80-90% of the dungeons I have tanked, I would have one or more DPS in the group who would run ahead and pull groups before I could.

    Let me say a couple things here. Firstly, I've played a DPS main for 6 years now. I've made my share of mistakes and I always try to remember to apologize when I screw up. Secondly, I don't think I'm a slow tank. I do usually wait to pull a pack until the previous one is dead, but I also don't stop unless someone dies or the healer needs mana.

    Anyway, when faced with these DPS players, I would ask them politely to let me be the one to pull as it is my job as the tank and its a lot easier for me and for the healer when I'm the one who pulls groups. Occasionally (maybe once or twice) the group would listen and stop running ahead. However, the majority of the time, they would either ignore me completely, or actively throw it back in my face with something along the lines of "omg quit whining". So, eventually, I adopted a policy, and I usually try to mention it at the start of a dungeon, that if DPS are intentionally pulling groups before me, I won't tank that group.

    When I recently decided to server transfer, I didn't want to bother transferring a level 38 monk so I started a new one. Specced tank, queued for a dungeon at 15, and was immediately faced with a dps warrior who pulled groups and insulted me when I asked him to stop.

    I realize that its just low level dungeons and not really a big deal, but I have grown so tired of questing over the past 8 years playing this game, that I prefer to level through dungeons, but I really get turned off of tanking by this behavior (even though I love monk tanking).

    My question is, am I a jerk for refusing to tank groups when a DPS player intentionally pulls them before I can? Do I need to just suck it up and either learn to live with it, or respec dps or something?
    not at all !

    my rule is if you pull it you tank it ... its not my issue from then on its yours ... besides u can clear a place with 2 dps 1 healer 1 tank just takes a little longer ... and its his repair bill when he dies not yours
    Last edited by Divineknight13; 2012-11-27 at 07:38 AM.

  11. #291
    Honestly, this will never go away. My advice would be to use it to your advantage. Plan for them to pull and focus on improving your snap aggro/awareness skills. 5man heroics are the perfect training ground for a raid environment where some clumsy dps aggro's a random trash pack.
    Having healed and tanked since vanilla I can honestly say I hate when an instance moves slow because the tank is insisting on pulling *every*single* mob and single targetting using icons.... it's boring, it takes no skill, and usually leads me to being afk half the time.
    It's much more engaging for the healer when shit is moderately, hitting the fan. That's just my opinion though.

  12. #292
    The Patient Chakra's Avatar
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    Pulling as a dps while leveling in dungeons is a delicate thing. You have to know where the tank is, know his ability to play and keep notice of his "pick up mobs cd's". You don't pull unless the mobs will walk towards you through the tank. You don't pull ranged/melee packs unless you can silence/interrupt the casters and you don't pull something you couldn't solo. Tanks don't get annoyed by the pulling itself, it's when you're a tard and making him go out of his way to pick up and tank the mobs. If you pull in a way he can just keep running or stand still then just thunderclap, you're playing together and he wouldn't notice your pulling, but if you make him run all over the map he's gonna get cranky real quick.
    "I don't have a complete healing set yet, but I am healing capped and MP5 capped, so I'm good."

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by wadark View Post
    Story time:

    I leveled a paladin to 85 during cata as ret. I then decided I wanted to take advantage of the Call to Arms bonuses and switched her to prot to start tanking. I ran many dungeons and never had a problem.

    Fast forward to Mists, I made a monk and decided I wanted to level it as a tank. So I specced Brewmaster at 10 and began running dungeons at 15. I leveled that monk to 38 exclusively through dungeons and noticed a very irritating trend. In about 80-90% of the dungeons I have tanked, I would have one or more DPS in the group who would run ahead and pull groups before I could.

    Let me say a couple things here. Firstly, I've played a DPS main for 6 years now. I've made my share of mistakes and I always try to remember to apologize when I screw up. Secondly, I don't think I'm a slow tank. I do usually wait to pull a pack until the previous one is dead, but I also don't stop unless someone dies or the healer needs mana.

    Anyway, when faced with these DPS players, I would ask them politely to let me be the one to pull as it is my job as the tank and its a lot easier for me and for the healer when I'm the one who pulls groups. Occasionally (maybe once or twice) the group would listen and stop running ahead. However, the majority of the time, they would either ignore me completely, or actively throw it back in my face with something along the lines of "omg quit whining". So, eventually, I adopted a policy, and I usually try to mention it at the start of a dungeon, that if DPS are intentionally pulling groups before me, I won't tank that group.

    When I recently decided to server transfer, I didn't want to bother transferring a level 38 monk so I started a new one. Specced tank, queued for a dungeon at 15, and was immediately faced with a dps warrior who pulled groups and insulted me when I asked him to stop.

    I realize that its just low level dungeons and not really a big deal, but I have grown so tired of questing over the past 8 years playing this game, that I prefer to level through dungeons, but I really get turned off of tanking by this behavior (even though I love monk tanking).

    My question is, am I a jerk for refusing to tank groups when a DPS player intentionally pulls them before I can? Do I need to just suck it up and either learn to live with it, or respec dps or something?
    So much ego in you eh, low level dungeons are a pain, and quests are worse(for some people, but definitely the case for you), so making the run faster is best for you and the others in the group, pulling the next group before you makes it harder for you and your healer? Joke excuse to be honest, there's no need to wait for the current group to die off before pulling the next, especially after you've tested it out on the first pull, you know well enough if you healer is capable of chain pulling without having to stop for mana.

    You are simply being a jerk because YOU CAN, and you are in a position to do so.

    You want to level fast or do you want to really waste time and try and argue with that dps you claimed to be a jac4ass?

    You tell people to stop, why can't others tell you to get on with it?

    If it was a plate dps pulling before you, the healer could easily heal that dps without problem, and if you stop and waste time talking in party chat, you are well and truly the burden of the group.

    Threat is a complete joke now so I really don't see any problem with dps who are willing to get ahead of me, or would you actually prefer 3 dpsers who is afk 80% of the time during the run???

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    Let them keep pulling. Sooner or later they'll pull one pack too much and you'll wipe where you can blame them. That's usually thing I do.
    I used to do this. I found myself wasting a lot of time. Many pointless spirit runs.

  15. #295
    The MoP dungeons are so easy, so it shouldn't really matter if the tank pulls or a DPS pulls. The fact that you don't get any gear rewards from Challenge dungeons is really bad. Give TBC dungeons back

  16. #296
    Unfortunately at low levels you really don't have a ton of tools that make you a superior tank.

    Can you do it better? Yes.

    Can a dps tank effectively? Yes.

    If they were just killed outright for making bonehead moves like that, it would stop. Your issue is with blizzard not the players. But really its with the players... I've said it again and again, the worst thing about this game, is the other players. Unfortunately you need them.

  17. #297
    tank faster/pull faster. the problem is you. this may sound like a mean thing but honestly none of these dungeons are worth shit till lvl 90 at heroics.

    the basic theory is if your dps has the aoe power to mow down mobs super fast.. no need to hold them back. yes keg smash has an 8 second cd.. but if u can gather with taunt/ dizzying haze/ then smash once their all close.. its all the better. ive played on every tank class in the game, BM does kinda suck till u get better aoe dmg but its just something to get used to.

    i die a little inside when i see tanks tanking 1-3 mobs at a time.. (gate of the setting sun) instead i prefer some1 with balls that pulls the entire group(12).
    Last edited by announced; 2012-11-27 at 04:05 PM.

  18. #298
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadark View Post
    This is how I feel about it, but it seems that others don't share that belief. I've been booted from a few dungeons because groups don't seem to like it.
    Late reply for me...

    If the dps doesn't like your pace, then they can leave. If they boot you, then you'll probably be able to find a new LFD group faster then they will. It's frustrating and I've experienced it every now and then. The upside is that you'll likely never see those players again.

    If I'm tanking, I usually follow the healer's cue. If he can keep up or always has full mana, then I'll go forward at a decent pace. I'll do the same if the healer says it's okay to chain pull. Something like that.

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