1. #1

    [Fire] Rolling Big Ignites

    Hey all, I've been looking around this forum for advice since 5.1 rolled out the new combustion changes, but I haven't found anything that works. I see people mentioning stacking up to 60-80k ignites relatively easily and I'm wondering how that works. I'm in 470 gear right now, but my highest ignite ticks (according to combat log) are around 25k even when I'm double critting pyro in my startup. I use the traditional alter time build up (I think) which is:

    1. Get HS and HU
    2. Cast PoM / AT
    3. Cast PoM Pyro
    4. Cast Pyro!
    5. (Cast Pyro assuming the HU procs)
    6. Cancel AT
    7. PoM Pyro
    8. Pyro!

    I'm generally combustioning within 3-4 casts of the first Pyro crit I see.

    Does anyone have any advice?

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnstryfe View Post
    Hey all, I've been looking around this forum for advice since 5.1 rolled out the new combustion changes, but I haven't found anything that works. I see people mentioning stacking up to 60-80k ignites relatively easily and I'm wondering how that works. I'm in 470 gear right now, but my highest ignite ticks (according to combat log) are around 25k even when I'm double critting pyro in my startup. I use the traditional alter time build up (I think) which is:

    1. Get HS and HU
    2. Cast PoM / AT
    3. Cast PoM Pyro
    4. Cast Pyro!
    5. (Cast Pyro assuming the HU procs)
    6. Cancel AT
    7. PoM Pyro
    8. Pyro!

    I'm generally combustioning within 3-4 casts of the first Pyro crit I see.

    Does anyone have any advice?
    Are you talking about on dummies, or on bosses? Dummies I think my highest Ignite is ~45K. I build up larger Ignites with pre-pots and all my procs at once.
    Also, if you're using the PoM/Alter Time macro, ensure you have Bomb on the target for 20% extra damage, and usually you'll only get larger ignites if your pyros are critting.

  3. #3
    Oh I'm using the target dummy (so only self buffed). Could the discrepancy between ~25k and ~45k be explained through pots though? It seems like a bit too large of the difference. Also yeah I forgot to include, I am putting the bomb on the target.

  4. #4
    There should be a hardcast fireball in between #'s 1 and 2 on that list. Also make sure your proc trinket is up before starting your combo, and use your on use trinket before the fireball I mentioned. Its really terrible when your proc trinket goes off during alter time, then you cancel alter time, and the buff is gone. So dont do that.

  5. #5
    Ignite damage difference between dummy and raid boss, is that in raid you have the +3000 mastery buff from sham/pal.

    Ignite damage is tied to our mastery, so it's norma; to have weak ignite when you don't have this buff.

    Also, the "rotation" you decribed is slightly wrong. The correct one is :

    Get HS + HU buffs
    Hit macro POM + AT
    Cast Fireball
    Cast HS pyro (directly after fireball cast is finished)
    Optional : get crit, cast another HS pyro
    Cast Pyro from POM buff
    Hit macro to get back to step two
    Cast HS pyro
    Optional : get crit, cast another HS pyro
    Cast Pyro from POM buff

    If lucky, everything crits and you get insane ignite amounts.

    If nothing crits, you should get medium ignite. It's up to you to decide if delaying combustion is woth it.

    Some might not cast the last pyro from POM, since it will deal 25% less damage. I've found that if you get 5 pyro crit, the 6th will significantly lower your ignite.
    Last edited by Shendow; 2012-11-28 at 03:44 PM.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shendow View Post
    Ignite damage difference between dummy and raid boss, is that in raid you have the +3000 mastery buff from sham/pal.

    Ignite damage is tied to our mastery, so it's norma; to have weak ignite when you don't have this buff.

    Also, the "rotation" you decribed is slightly wrong. The correct one is :

    Get HS + HU buffs
    Hit macro POM + AT
    Cast Fireball
    Cast HS pyro (directly after fireball cast is finished)
    Optional : get crit, cast another HS pyro
    Cast Pyro from POM buff
    Hit macro to get back to step two
    Cast HS pyro
    Optional : get crit, cast another HS pyro
    Cast Pyro from POM buff

    If lucky, everything crits and you get insane ignite amounts.

    If nothing crits, you should get medium ignite. It's up to you to decide if delaying combustion is woth it.

    Some might not cast the last pyro from POM, since it will deal 25% less damage. I've found that if you get 5 pyro crit, the 6th will significantly lower your ignite.
    If your initial HS Pyro! crits and you gain a second HS Pyro, you should immediately re-cast Alter Time and cast a third successive HS Pyro and, if you're really lucky, a 4th HS Pyro.
    Combustion is based upon Ignite, Ignite lasts 4 seconds; you trigger a GCD from each Pyro cast, 4 Pyros = 4 Seconds from GCDs. If all 4 crit you'll have a large Ignite and you should Combust as soon as the 4th hits. The reason why you'll see your ignite fall off is because if you're chaining that many pyros the later ones might not be crits and you'll lose the initial damage from the first 2, hence why your Ignite gets lowered.
    Yes, this method potentially wastes 1 use of PoM (bear in mind you'll get your second use no matter what as you can use it post-Combust), but it's the best way to actually build Ignite.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shendow View Post
    Also, the "rotation" you decribed is slightly wrong. The correct one is :

    Get HS + HU buffs
    Hit macro POM + AT
    Cast Fireball
    Cast HS pyro (directly after fireball cast is finished)...
    Wait, i'm confused, if you use your POM+AT macro and then cast Fireball - wont the fireball use up the POM buff? Instead of using it on another pyro?

  8. #8
    Fireball must go before step 2, or else it will consume your PoM buff.

  9. #9
    Obviously wrong.

    1. Get HU+HS
    2. PoM
    (3. use any trinkets or racials)
    4. Alter Time
    5. Pyro from HS
    6. Pyro from PoM
    (7. Pyro from HU if it has procced another HS)
    8. Alter Time back
    9. Pyro from HS
    10. Pyro from PoM
    (11. like 7.)

    You have to watch for a few things here:
    1. Don't let your bomb run out -> Pyromaniac missing
    2. If you have 3 Pyro crits in a row it's time to combust. That's what my statistics told me just my feeling - no math or big explanation here
    3. I do combust in every case after the last Pyro even if I only have a subpar Combustion because I have the troll racial and 20% more haste shouldn't be wasted

    How much do you stack up your ignites in the average? That's what's really interesting to me. I hear a lot of guys stacking every ignite up to 100k (at least they say). But my average ignite is about 40 to 50k. Once I was very lucky during the pull and with prepot and made it up to a 120k ignite. But normally in this scenario I'm like 60k or so. Normal? Way too low? Just bad RNG?

  10. #10
    Your rotation is fine, though a few things you might want to do, if you aren't, is unequipping your main hand. Invocation has a chance to proc Jade Spirit, wouldn't want to waste that on the initial pull. Macro Mirror Images with equipping your Main Hand, as well as taking a pot is a useful macro. Also, throwing a crazy amount of pyroblast sounds amazing in theory, but you can totally bone yourself. Make sure that you're paying attention to how hard your pyroblast are hitting, because you might get an 80k ignite with the first 3 pyroblast, and after you use Alter Time, you continue to throw pyroblast, those last 2-3 could bring your ignite back down to 30k ish, and that's no good. So when you're throwing your pyros, make sure you're paying attention to how high your ignite is after each pyro. Cheers!

  11. #11
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    Obviously wrong.

    1. Get HU+HS
    2. PoM
    (3. use any trinkets or racials)
    4. Alter Time
    5. Pyro from HS
    6. Pyro from PoM
    (7. Pyro from HU if it has procced another HS)
    8. Alter Time back
    9. Pyro from HS
    10. Pyro from PoM
    (11. like 7.)

    You have to watch for a few things here:
    1. Don't let your bomb run out -> Pyromaniac missing
    2. If you have 3 Pyro crits in a row it's time to combust. That's what my statistics told me just my feeling - no math or big explanation here
    3. I do combust in every case after the last Pyro even if I only have a subpar Combustion because I have the troll racial and 20% more haste shouldn't be wasted

    How much do you stack up your ignites in the average? That's what's really interesting to me. I hear a lot of guys stacking every ignite up to 100k (at least they say). But my average ignite is about 40 to 50k. Once I was very lucky during the pull and with prepot and made it up to a 120k ignite. But normally in this scenario I'm like 60k or so. Normal? Way too low? Just bad RNG?
    Yours is actually wrong, as stated earlier you want to use up the second HS Pyro! before PoM, and if THAT crits you skip using PoM and go straight back so HS Pyro! from Alter Time. This is PURELY for Combustion purposes. HS Pyro! hits 25% harder, therefore the crit is going to be 25% higher as well. IF you're getting a crit streak, you want to avoid using PoM to potentially dampen your Combust when HS Pyro! is hitting harder.

    My average Ignite is in the 50K region, maximum outside of Elegon has been 80K. But, when talking about building Ignites your largest isn't necessarily how good you are at building them as all it really takes is good RNG. When I run PoM my average Ignites get larger but if you're a good player and understand how Ignite works even when you don't run PoM it shouldn't be hard to build a good Ignite.

  12. #12
    I'd go with:

    0. Wait for proc trinket to trigger
    1. HS+HU
    2. Trinket/potion (potion may not be an option if you prepotted or you plan to use it at a different time)
    3. Living bomb refresh
    4. Hardcast fireball
    5. PoM
    6. Alter Time
    7. Pyro (Instant with HS)
    8. Pyro (Instant with PoM or HS if #7 Crit)
    9. If #7 crit Pyro (Instant with PoM)
    10. Cancel Alter Time
    11. Pyro (Instant with HS)
    12. Pyro (Instant with PoM or HS if #11 Crit)
    13. If #11 crit, Pyro (Instant with PoM)

    Combust at whatever point the ignite reaches your minimum threshold. You dont have to go through the whole series before hitting combustion, but that'll give you the longest and strongest series of pyros to set up the opportunity. The pyros themselves (and the resulting ignite) are also an enormous amount of damage when executed properly.
    Last edited by Iskra22; 2012-11-29 at 02:18 AM.

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