View Poll Results: Is this fair and legal?

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  • Yes

    50 18.80%
  • No

    216 81.20%
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  1. #1

    ISPs Will 'Break Your Internet' If They Catch You Pirating

    I have a few questions on this. A new program in place working with five major internet company and radio and movies. Isn't that the same people working with Hollywood. So HollyWood didn't get their bill in place that would made it legal for them to complain to the police like it was an actual crime. SO five of the United States Major High Speed networks are working with each other. If they "think" you might be pirating. Then they can slow down you're internet speed on the spot and make you answer a question and answer survey.

    Sounds a bit extreme. still pretty extreme but is it legal and fair. For those who do pay for high speed gaming. That we could be targeted and very unfairly. What do you think?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ref=technology

    Quoted from Article

    The result was the “Six Strikes” initiative, a program that allows Internet service providers (ISPs) to directly penalize users who downloaded pirated content. How ISPs planned to punish the users, though, was left largely unsaid in the initiative’s actual text, leading to months of information vacuum filled only by the Center for Copyright Information’s vague promises that penalties could include anything from the following, according to the CCI's official description of the Copyright Alert System:

    [T]emporary reductions of Internet speeds, redirection to a landing page until the subscriber contacts the ISP to discuss the matter, or reviews and responds to some educational information about copyright, or other measures (as specified in published policies) that the ISP may deem necessary to help resolve the matter.
    Rules laid out by top service providers so far have offered a few more details on the penalties that could result for offenders.

    Verizon recently announced it would throttle offenders’ Internet speeds without saying by how much. Time Warner Cable on November 15th said that it would restrict repeat offenders' Internet browsing “by directing them to a landing page” without specifying “for how long users will be restricted to the landing page or what websites they will be able to reach, if any," according to Torrent Freak. And AT&T, in a leaked internal training memo published by Torrent Freak, said it would block customer access to frequently visited websites “until they complete an online copyright course;” the company did not say, however, what the course will entail or which websites will be blocked.
    Last edited by FusedMass; 2012-11-25 at 02:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord StayTuned's Avatar
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    Sounds like hubba bubba spacemagic to me. "Online copyright course"? Lol...

    Also... Huffpost? Any other source would be welcomed.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    Sounds like hubba bubba spacemagic to me. "Online copyright course"? Lol...

    Also... Huffpost? Any other source would be welcomed.
    There's nothing wrong with HuffPost. You make it sound like they point false information. You can Google this information and check to see it's accurate. Just because you don't like their liberal appeal doesn't mean they're intentionally misleading on topics for no reason.

    Since you asked

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...ng-monitoring/

    http://www.copyrightinformation.org/alerts- It explains the program in detail CAS Copyright Alert System

    http://torrentfreak.com/verizon-will...irates-121115/ -Admitting reducing speeds for people who pirate stuff. Among other things.

    http://torrentfreak.com/att-starts-s...sites-121012/- By a torrent freak shares a leaked memo
    Last edited by FusedMass; 2012-11-25 at 03:04 PM.

  4. #4
    Oh man, sometime it's just super rewarding to live in Bulgaria.

  5. #5
    If they provided you with free internet, sure.. but as long as you pay for it, it shouldn't be legal. Plus how would they even know if someone is pirating, Im pretty sure monitoring it by a private company is illegal.......

  6. #6
    Seems like their first attempts failed, now they are trying another tack. Doubt it will get instituted though. Sure as hell isn't right or legal to my mind, and I am against piracy for sure.
    Also, this will more than likely be massively abused by companies who notice people have high downloads, and use it to artificially limit their download amount/access with some BS reasoning. If peeps think it will be used correctly and fairly, they are in for another thing entirely :S

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Decagon's Avatar
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    I think the reasoning behind it is sound, but I don't understand how they do it and they should certainly give more leeway (some people might not do it on purpose), I think it's a step in the right direction. However, the companies should contact the "pirates" and tell them they pirated and that is why their Internet is being throttled, it does no good if you don't actually tell the pirate that they've been caught and doing something illegal if you don't give them any direct consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    "And nothing was ever heard from Deca again"

  8. #8
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Of course it's fair and legal. You are paying to use their service. If you are using their service to break the law, they are well within their rights to terminate your link to their service. People seriously need to start reading service agreements before signing.

    You don't like it? Form your own ISP.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  9. #9
    Them trying to fight pirating will actually hurt them in the long run. Most people who pirate wouldn't have bought the product to begin with but, after trying it out, some pirates actually go out and buy the product because they want to support the company that puts good products out. This leads to having increased sales and not less. I've pirated a couple games because I wasn't sure if I would like them. But after trying it out, I went and bought the copies. Pirating has bad sides to it as well but overall it is not worth the fight. All it is going to do is ruin the internet. Youtube eventually wont allow videos if they use ANY trademarked songs or images making it hard to upload anything. ISP's will "break your internet" even if you don't realize you are infringing on copyright.

    In conclusion, they should stop trying to punish people for "stealing". We prefer to call it sharing. How is making something available for download any different than lending my friend a DVD so he can watch it? I know that it is a problem for companies but they need to be more clever and use pirating to their advantage. They can release demos through pirating sites for upcoming games and movies to help generate interest for example. Use the systems already built by pirates to take advantage of the free marketing rather than fight it.

  10. #10
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischiefpwns View Post
    I've pirated a couple games because I wasn't sure if I would like them. But after trying it out, I went and bought the copies.
    The opposite is actually very true as well. Many people get a pirated copy, then decide they were glad they didn't buy it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Decagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischiefpwns View Post
    Them trying to fight pirating will actually hurt them in the long run. Most people who pirate wouldn't have bought the product to begin with but, after trying it out, some pirates actually go out and buy the product because they want to support the company that puts good products out. This leads to having increased sales and not less. I've pirated a couple games because I wasn't sure if I would like them. But after trying it out, I went and bought the copies. Pirating has bad sides to it as well but overall it is not worth the fight. All it is going to do is ruin the internet. Youtube eventually wont allow videos if they use ANY trademarked songs or images making it hard to upload anything. ISP's will "break your internet" even if you don't realize you are infringing on copyright.

    In conclusion, they should stop trying to punish people for "stealing". We prefer to call it sharing. How is making something available for download any different than lending my friend a DVD so he can watch it? I know that it is a problem for companies but they need to be more clever and use pirating to their advantage. They can release demos through pirating sites for upcoming games and movies to help generate interest for example. Use the systems already built by pirates to take advantage of the free marketing rather than fight it.
    It's different because, following your analogy, you're stealing a strangers DVD and keeping it, it's not like sharing with a friend. If pirating was so beneficial as a demo, then more companies would use a free demo, as most games do not or have highly limited demos, demos obviously don't dramatically increase sales. Why should companies have to be "clever" just because people are awful and will steal their stuff if there is no legislation?
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    "And nothing was ever heard from Deca again"

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
    It's different because, following your analogy, you're stealing a strangers DVD and keeping it, it's not like sharing with a friend. If pirating was so beneficial as a demo, then more companies would use a free demo, as most games do not or have highly limited demos, demos obviously don't dramatically increase sales. Why should companies have to be "clever" just because people are awful and will steal their stuff if there is no legislation?
    Again, as often is the case, your continuation of the analogy breaks down. Sure he is stealing his friends DVD and keeping it...but miraculously his friend still has unlimited access to his stolen dvd.

    "Stolen" is such an inacurate word for piracy, unless you really try to get in and change what is meant by stolen. "Stolen" implies I've taken something from Best Buy. If I STOLE my Jack Sparrow Edition of Photoshop from Best Buy, then they would have ONE LESS copy of it on their shelves. A copy they paid for and will not be able to resell. That is stolen. That is not what i did. Stolen, Steal, theft, thief are words that really can't apply to pirating.
    Get a grip man! It's CHEESE!

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Decagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poser765 View Post
    Again, as often is the case, your continuation of the analogy breaks down. Sure he is stealing his friends DVD and keeping it...but miraculously his friend still has unlimited access to his stolen dvd.

    "Stolen" is such an inacurate word for piracy, unless you really try to get in and change what is meant by stolen. "Stolen" implies I've taken something from Best Buy. If I STOLE my Jack Sparrow Edition of Photoshop from Best Buy, then they would have ONE LESS copy of it on their shelves. A copy they paid for and will not be able to resell. That is stolen. That is not what i did. Stolen, Steal, theft, thief are words that really can't apply to pirating.
    I didn't actually expect the analogy to work at all. This is a situation where analogies are very not useful and should give way to hypotheticals (hypotheticals in the sense of how you used it in your post).

    You're stealing their intellectual property. It doesn't matter if it's physical or not. Pirating is still "taking" and using something that you didn't actually pay for. Even if steal isn't the right word, that's just semantics, it really doesn't matter what word is used, it still doesn't make it right or wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    "And nothing was ever heard from Deca again"

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Of course it's fair and legal. You are paying to use their service. If you are using their service to break the law, they are well within their rights to terminate your link to their service. People seriously need to start reading service agreements before signing.

    You don't like it? Form your own ISP.
    Exactly this, I bet youd prefer slower net speeds over a huge fine and prison sentence if they decided to make an example of a person

  15. #15
    Mechagnome lupii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decagon View Post
    I didn't actually expect the analogy to work at all. This is a situation where analogies are very not useful and should give way to hypotheticals (hypotheticals in the sense of how you used it in your post).

    You're stealing their intellectual property. It doesn't matter if it's physical or not. Pirating is still "taking" and using something that you didn't actually pay for. Even if steal isn't the right word, that's just semantics, it really doesn't matter what word is used, it still doesn't make it right or wrong.
    The copying of things 'illegally' has existed longer than the internet has been around. I guarantee you there have been tons of illegal book copies made and sold. HAs it hurt the printing industry? Probably not, considering it is still running to this day. People copied cassettes, VHS', cheap mp3 players had the ability to record songs from the radio!

    Now let us look at a different angle of 'intellectual property'. In japan, there are hentai games, doujins, fan books published using characters from a hundred and one different series and genres. These are completely legal and the manga industry doesn't go after them, trying to strangle them. In Japan, intellectual property is shared and is used freely, to a greater extent than is in North America.

    So, what is the issue? The issue is that the people who control the 'copyright' don't want to share it and instead make every cent off of it they can. There were campaigns against copying movies since the 80's. The same crap about the industry crumbling, yet the actual act was a non-issue.

    What about scientific reports and studies? Aren't they the 'intellectual property' of those that wrote it? So shouldn't we be paying a royalty every time we want to look at it or use it in research papers? Yet we don't. Aren't we stealing from them their property?

    The idea of 'intellectual property' is very skewed to the favor of the copyright holders hoarding it. It does not benefit society. Is it a crime for us to share knowledge and ideas?
    Last edited by lupii; 2012-11-25 at 05:32 PM. Reason: slight typo on one part

  16. #16
    Banned This name sucks's Avatar
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    Mine do that even if Im not caught pirating. 500kb/s potential maximum, rofl.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    Mine do that even if Im not caught pirating. 500kb/s potential maximum, rofl.
    to be fair, 500 kb/s is still more than fast enough to download games overnight or while at work like people used to, and to stream everything but 1080p

  18. #18
    Two problems with this.

    First its already very easy to hide behind a proxy, wich pretty much eliminate any proofs they would have that you are pirating.

    Secondly, i'll take my example, i currently share internet with 7 other people, if one of them is stupid enough to get caught, they will deny the service to everyone else? Makes no sense to me, and has an high potential to make them lose customers.

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    The opposite is actually very true as well. Many people get a pirated copy, then decide they were glad they didn't buy it.
    Well think of it this way.

    If I put up half a siding on someone's house, I don't get paid.

    Some people don't deserve to get paid.
    they say that doors open up soon as you find the missing key
    that’s probably why I’m in this bitch shining
    jump up in the sky and put the stars into alignment
    I rep the ATF in case you need to be reminded
    and the bandwagon's full but you can try an' run behind it

  20. #20
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergal View Post
    Two problems with this.

    First its already very easy to hide behind a proxy, wich pretty much eliminate any proofs they would have that you are pirating.
    ISPs can see that. If you encrypt the data by using a HTTPS proxy, they cannot see the data...but they can still seeing you're using a proxy and uploading / downloading in massive quantities.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 11:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Well think of it this way.

    If I put up half a siding on someone's house, I don't get paid.

    Some people don't deserve to get paid.
    That's not even close to a valid comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

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