View Poll Results: Is this fair and legal?

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  • Yes

    50 18.80%
  • No

    216 81.20%
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  1. #261
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    I respectfully disagree. No doubt HuffPost has a Liberal Agenda or Pro Left Wing. The major differences from the two is that Fox News flats out lies and makes up information that is accepted as the normal. While HuffPost might be biased they don't flat out tell you lies.
    They may not make up lies, but their bias generally presents the facts in a way that often distorts the truth.

    This is why I never link anything from that website and call it credible.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    They may not make up lies, but their bias generally presents the facts in a way that often distorts the truth.

    This is why I never link anything from that website and call it credible.
    HuffPost is like Jon Stewart. Of course they have a trasnparent Liberal Bias but they don't hide it and call themselves "Fair and Balanced" For example when the Hurrcaine Sandy rolled in MSNBC, CNN etc all cove raged on the storm. Fox was the only people who didn't clearly pushing they're agenda. What I'm saying is HuffPost is up front with you about their bias and being biased doesn't stop them from reporting on the truth of things.

    Generally when Fox reports something it's more politically motivated then actual news with truth. It's like an arm of the republican party inviting guests as props to come on they're show while they bash the liberal agenda but this is getting off topic. ISP is the main issue. It's the internet. I recall when I was younger loading my screen using dial up waiting hours to get online.

    When I did the internet was slow but I was massively impressed by it. A decade later. The UN wants to have some control over the internet. People who pay for high speed access shouldn't have to get warnings directly from their ISP. Who they pay very well to give them services on the off chance to catch people who pirates. Isn't this just a big waste of time to monitor people online who might download movies. Did we really have go through all this.

  3. #263
    How about they first focus on providing us their media content (games, music, movies etc) conveniently and more cheaply, with greater availability and accompanying services?


    Have you seen Steam? Good prices, easy and convenient. Makes money.

    Take a look at stuff like movies/music... overpriced discs, god knows where to get them, often not available where you live/won't be available for a ridiculous amount of time, etc.

    What I mean is, corporations complain about piracy, yet they don't have to offer something that confronts it on its level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Then the [MMORPG] genre started attracting more players. These players wanted more of a "game" and less of a "world" [...]

  4. #264
    Moderator d3v's Avatar
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    While I can understand this for pirating music and and maybe somewhat for movies, what bothers me is nowadays, a demo of a game is a lot more rare than say, 10-15 years ago. I remember buying a PC (gaming) magazine and getting a CD/DVD filled with game demo's on it.

    As some people have stated, some download a game to try it, and if they like it will go ahead and purchase the game. However at the same time, as also has been said, some people will download the game, realise they don't like it and not purchase it (and this is where the gaming companies then lose out on a potential sale). It's like some game companies want you to take a leap of faith and buy their game without being given a chance to test it beforehand. Sure, you can try making a judgement call by looking at reviews, but nothing compares to trying out the game for yourself. One could argue a demo still doesn't give you a full idea of the game, but in my opinion it gives you a lot better idea than a (biased) review or gameplay video. And when it comes to PC games, the game might not run as well on your setup as it shows on said review and gameplay videos.

    Now of course some companies still do make demo's, like EA Sports do with the FIFA and NFL franchise, but I get the general impression it's a lot more rare than in the past. Take Assassin's Creed 3 for example (if I'm wrong here, there are countless other examples, so take this with a grain of salt). As far as I'm aware there has never been a demo of any Assassin's Creed title. How do I know if I'll like this game and if it is worth the €40-70 it costs depending on what platform you buy it, without trying it out first? Sure, I can check out reviews and gameplay video's, but as I said, they're not the same as trying it out for yourself. It's a rather annoying feeling when you hand over a sum of cash for a game that you then end up not liking, and in some cases you can't return/resell as you've used a key in order to play the game.

    As for movies, I'm kind of 50/50. The only thing you can judge a movie on is trailers (which obviously don't show you too much or it would spoil the movie) and again, reviews. However going to the cinema is getting more and more expensive (an example, the cinema closest to me charges €9,60 for a normal movie and €11,60 for a 3D movie) and a game gives you many more hours of enjoyment than a movie does, if you like it that is.

    Music, however, there is no excuse really. There are means to listen to a part of a song, or even the whole song, legally. There are also nowadays cheaper solutions, like Spotify, letting you listen to as much music as you want, legally, for a set price (less than the cost of an album). Of course not all record labels have a contract with such services, but really, there are enough means to 'preview' music off an album before buying it.

    That said, I do however agree that you pay to use your ISP's service, and if you're using it for illegal means they should have every right to take action to stop you doing it.
    Last edited by d3v; 2012-11-27 at 05:49 PM.

  5. #265
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    HuffPost is like Jon Stewart. Of course they have a trasnparent Liberal Bias but they don't hide it and call themselves "Fair and Balanced" For example when the Hurrcaine Sandy rolled in MSNBC, CNN etc all cove raged on the storm. Fox was the only people who didn't clearly pushing they're agenda. What I'm saying is HuffPost is up front with you about their bias and being biased doesn't stop them from reporting on the truth of things.
    Jon Stewart actually doesn't have that liberal a bias. He just has a bias against stupid remarks; which is why he pounced on Biden's "chains" remarks and Obama's terrible debate performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Jon Stewart actually doesn't have that liberal a bias. He just has a bias against stupid remarks; which is why he pounced on Biden's "chains" remarks and Obama's terrible debate performance.
    MSNBC also pounced on Obama's poor debate performance. Some people are under the strong illusion that MSNBC wasn't freaking out when Obama debated Mitt in the first one. They were. Chris Matthews nearly had a heart attack shouting about how about Obama did. Huff Post even high lighted that. The difference from that networks and rest. When Mitt did poorly or lost ground they didn't jump on him right away. This is off topic though.

    Everything we get from the internet, music, games and etc is at stake. If we allow people to change that even for best intentions then what started off as "free" would be limited to those controlling the governments to bend these things to what they want. For example. Bill Gates had an idea to fight spam years ago. He requested they charge a few penny's every time we send an email or figure out a puzzle.

    If we let him have his way we'd be pre charging our cards for every email we sent out. Virtually almost everything we want do on the internet is our choice. People collect information off our cookies and try to get us to buy things. The system largely works because it leaves things undisturbed. To just cut that and say "We're going to monitor and Modify" then why stop at slowing the internet.

    If that SOPA bill did pass. Then people in HollyWood could complain directly to people to yank they're content off instead of going through slow route.

  7. #267
    Titan Winter Blossom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergal View Post
    i currently share internet with 7 other people, if one of them is stupid enough to get caught, they will deny the service to everyone else? Makes no sense to me, and has an high potential to make them lose customers.
    Only one person signed the contract and one person is on the bill. They don't care if you are sharing it and spilting the payments.

  8. #268
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticmoon View Post
    Only one person signed the contract and one person is on the bill. They don't care if you are sharing it and spilting the payments.
    But according to that contract, it can still get turned off even any conditions are violated, because the person on the contract is "responsible" for the people he/she lets use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  9. #269
    Titan Winter Blossom's Avatar
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    Also the poll is a litte messed up. You have two questions, wanting one answer.

    Is it fair? Some would agree, while others wouldn't.
    Is it legal? Yes. Read what you sign. You are paying them for their service and you are doing something illegal.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 10:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    But according to that contract, it can still get turned off even any conditions are violated, because the person on the contract is "responsible" for the people he/she lets use it.
    Exactly. That's why they don't care if multiple people are using the Internet. All they know is that the illegal download came from X's ISP. They don't care if Y was using it, because Y isn't on the bill or contract.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Celticmoon View Post
    Also the poll is a litte messed up. You have two questions, wanting one answer.

    Is it fair? Some would agree, while others wouldn't.
    Is it legal? Yes. Read what you sign. You are paying them for their service and you are doing something illegal.
    I put "Is it fair" and "Is it Legal" not everyone is from United States. We have different global laws that conflict with each other. What is legal here may not be considered legal there and vice versa. I admit I could have worded it better. Just imagine I asked if it's legal. Fair can be objective. I have high speed internet from one of the company's listed.

    I never signed an agreement allowing them to do this. They're not asking out permission. They're just doing it without notifying us of new services being added. It's not like we can read the fine print and click "Don't Accept" it's virtually without a choice.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by d3v View Post
    I remember buying a PC (gaming) magazine and getting a CD/DVD filled with game demo's on it.


    Getting my copies of PC Gamer, EGM and others was a high point of my summers as a teenager. I was exposed to, and often purchased, lots of games I otherwise would have never even though I would be interested in.

  12. #272
    This type of thing has been going on for a long time already. Ever since the DMCA. The only thing that actually changes these days is the amount of monitoring they do on their users. Problem with monitoring the users is cost first, it forces the ISPs to spend more in order to monitor more, which means their costs go up more. So in the end they monitor less since they want to keep their prices lower in order to beat out competition.

    Also this only targets the "mass population" and not the more tech savvy users. Things like where they target certain websites, like popular torrent sites, to those who have been around long enough know to avoid these places like the plague. Cant really go into any actual detail since i dont want yet another infraction here based on 'pirating' comments. But in essence those who know better would never be caught up in any of this type of stuff, to those who just leech off the internet whatever they might find 'free' thats actually illegal and dont know better then to use certain methods.. yeah sucks to be them.
    ^^Everything said above is purely the opinion of the person who posted it. Nothing said is to be taken as fact unless otherwise stated, and even then only taken into consideration as fact, and not an actual fact, as it could be wrong or in other ways misinformed.

  13. #273
    You know I always wondered if Comcast was breaking my internet and I think they had been. I remember specifically one night in July 2011 I had downloaded the latest episode of curb your enthusiasm because I don't have HBO. I noticed immediately that night my internet had started having unexplained mini outages. I've been pirating all kinds of stuff for many years I'm not here to debate what is right what is wrong just stating what has happened. Though I always pirated "indie" stuff never something from someone big like Microsoft or HBO. So I had worried maybe this is the time I will get caught. Anyways literally for the next year up until about August 2012 I had 1-3 mini outages EVERY DAY. They would last 15-20 minutes. I'm not an idiot and know the whole reset everything routine change this change that. Probably 3-4 times during that year I had called and explained that I was having these outages and they claimed every time there was nothing wrong with my service.

    I literally haven't pirated anything in months (not because of the outages, I didn't think they were related) and have noticed that since about August these mini outages have stopped completely. This has what led me to believe that Comcast was punishing me for pirating.

  14. #274
    This was only a matter of time to be honest. ISPs were destined to consolidate like any other industry.

    Unfortunately for them and fortunately for us, the internet is simply too chaotic to control.

  15. #275
    Ribbon Guru Simca's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter. The penalties are a slap on the wrist at best. There is not even a penalty level for suspending your service, so the thread title is lolsy.

    Use private torrents, VPNs, HTTPS proxies, UseNet, or any of the other various ways to get around these silly restrictions.

    Also, the reason HuffPost is bad on stuff like this is because they way overreact (as all liberal media does when the word "censorship" gets involved). Some example news titles:

    HuffPost: "HOLY SHIT ISPs BREAKIN UR INTERNETS, STOP EVERYTHING RITE NAO"
    Fox News: "OBAMA* KILLS CHILDREN IN KENYA WITH SWITCHBLADE" "Also, ISPs are breakin' ur internets"

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpenth View Post
    I literally haven't pirated anything in months (not because of the outages, I didn't think they were related) and have noticed that since about August these mini outages have stopped completely. This has what led me to believe that Comcast was punishing me for pirating.
    Comcast is just a shit ISP in general, lol. I had a week last month where I lost connection about every hour, and just as I called to complain, it stopped and never came back.

    * actually, it was Obama's fifth-cousin twice-removed's sister in-law's co-worker (etc etc)
    Last edited by Simca; 2012-11-27 at 07:25 PM.
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  16. #276
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    Unfortunately places like HuffPost exacerbate issues like this even more. Rather than encouraging alternatives to piracy that don't involve supporting establishments like the RIAA, they put fuel on the fire for more "pro-piracy" sentiments.
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  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    Unfortunately places like HuffPost exacerbate issues like this even more. Rather than encouraging alternatives to piracy that don't involve supporting establishments like the RIAA, they put fuel on the fire for more "pro-piracy" sentiments.
    Agreed, completely. Nothing to add, just wanted to agree...

  18. #278
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    ISP's have been being bitched at for years to do something about piracy and they have every right to refuse service to people who break the law with their service. I don't see how so many of you feel they have no right to do so. They have every right to refuse service to people who violate their terms of service.

  19. #279
    Scarab Lord shise's Avatar
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    It's fun. When I downlaod music, they should actually PAY ME.



    Why!?!?

    When I like a song which I download, I post it on, let's say, Facebook. Thanks to MY post 10 people get to know that song, and let's say 6 of them like it. 4 of them will buy it and the other 2 wil ldownload it to later do the same as I did.

    Basicalyl I'm getting htem customers for free.

    Now go ahead haters, start the hatin'!

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by d3v View Post
    While I can understand this for pirating music and and maybe somewhat for movies, what bothers me is nowadays, a demo of a game is a lot more rare than say, 10-15 years ago. I remember buying a PC (gaming) magazine and getting a CD/DVD filled with game demo's on it.

    As some people have stated, some download a game to try it, and if they like it will go ahead and purchase the game. However at the same time, as also has been said, some people will download the game, realise they don't like it and not purchase it (and this is where the gaming companies then lose out on a potential sale). It's like some game companies want you to take a leap of faith and buy their game without being given a chance to test it beforehand. Sure, you can try making a judgement call by looking at reviews, but nothing compares to trying out the game for yourself. One could argue a demo still doesn't give you a full idea of the game, but in my opinion it gives you a lot better idea than a (biased) review or gameplay video. And when it comes to PC games, the game might not run as well on your setup as it shows on said review and gameplay videos.

    Now of course some companies still do make demo's, like EA Sports do with the FIFA and NFL franchise, but I get the general impression it's a lot more rare than in the past. Take Assassin's Creed 3 for example (if I'm wrong here, there are countless other examples, so take this with a grain of salt). As far as I'm aware there has never been a demo of any Assassin's Creed title. How do I know if I'll like this game and if it is worth the €40-70 it costs depending on what platform you buy it, without trying it out first? Sure, I can check out reviews and gameplay video's, but as I said, they're not the same as trying it out for yourself. It's a rather annoying feeling when you hand over a sum of cash for a game that you then end up not liking, and in some cases you can't return/resell as you've used a key in order to play the game.

    As for movies, I'm kind of 50/50. The only thing you can judge a movie on is trailers (which obviously don't show you too much or it would spoil the movie) and again, reviews. However going to the cinema is getting more and more expensive (an example, the cinema closest to me charges €9,60 for a normal movie and €11,60 for a 3D movie) and a game gives you many more hours of enjoyment than a movie does, if you like it that is.

    Music, however, there is no excuse really. There are means to listen to a part of a song, or even the whole song, legally. There are also nowadays cheaper solutions, like Spotify, letting you listen to as much music as you want, legally, for a set price (less than the cost of an album). Of course not all record labels have a contract with such services, but really, there are enough means to 'preview' music off an album before buying it.

    That said, I do however agree that you pay to use your ISP's service, and if you're using it for illegal means they should have every right to take action to stop you doing it.
    Its more that they're going hyper-paranoid-soviet-union-espionage in order to determine whether or not what you're doing is legal or not.

    And straight up not giving a fuck and arresting and extraditing people who were breaking US law but doing something perfectly legal in their own country. (demonoid and Ukraine)

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