View Poll Results: Is this fair and legal?

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  • Yes

    50 18.80%
  • No

    216 81.20%
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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Decagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lupii View Post
    The copying of things 'illegally' has existed longer than the internet has been around. I guarantee you there have been tons of illegal book copies made and sold. HAs it hurt the printing industry? Probably not, considering it is still running to this day. People copied cassettes, VHS', cheap mp3 players had the ability to record songs from the radio!

    Now let us look at a different angle of 'intellectual property'. In japan, there are hentai games, doujins, fan books published using characters from a hundred and one different series and genres. These are completely legal and the manga industry doesn't go after them, trying to strangle them. In Japan, intellectual property is shared and is used freely, to a greater extent than is in North America.

    So, what is the issue? The issue is that the people who control the 'copyright' don't want to share it and instead make every cent off of it they can. There were campaigns against copying movies since the 80's. The same crap about the industry crumbling, yet the actual act was a non-issue.

    What about scientific reports and studies? Aren't they the 'intellectual property' of those that wrote it? So shouldn't we be paying a royalty every time we want to look at it or use it in research papers? Yet we don't. Aren't we stealing from them their property?

    The idea of 'intellectual property' is very skewed to the favor of the copyright holders hoarding it. It does not benefit society. Is it a crime for us to share knowledge and ideas?
    I'm not saying that I don't agree with you, but as it is now, pirating is illegal and should be treated as such. It doesn't matter if it's wrong or right, it matters if it's legal. I think it would be great if we could share every last scrap of knowledge there is, unfortunately, we live in a world where capitalism forces us to hide our knowledge to garner more profit. Until (or if) capitalism is phased out, we still need to protect the copyrights as they are instrumental in keeping capitalism thriving. (I hope that didn't make me sound too much like a bitchy socialist ).

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 10:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zergal View Post
    Two problems with this.

    First its already very easy to hide behind a proxy, wich pretty much eliminate any proofs they would have that you are pirating.

    Secondly, i'll take my example, i currently share internet with 7 other people, if one of them is stupid enough to get caught, they will deny the service to everyone else? Makes no sense to me, and has an high potential to make them lose customers.
    I didn't even think of that, yeah, that would suck if you get throttled or dropped Internet because of what another person did. I guess maybe that will be a bigger incentive to tell people to not copyright (that will totally stop them).
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    "And nothing was ever heard from Deca again"

  2. #22
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    How could this ever possibly enforced?

    Using the bittorrent protocol period? That would last about an hour.

    Using bittorrent for certain file types? Also an hour.

    Certain keywords being used? Probably an hour.

    Encrypting your shit and using a vpn like a smart person would be this entirely pointless still.

    a leaked internal training memo published by Torrent Freak, said it would block customer access to frequently visited websites “until they complete an online copyright course;”

    I laughed so hard.

  3. #23
    Filesharing, not piracy. Here is a scenario.

    Person x downloads media y from website z. Did this person just steal? The answer is no they did not; the person was shared the media.

    A lot of times people define stealing as "Getting something that's not yours, without paying for it". Well that definition could include sharing, taking something from the side of the road with a "free sign" on it, being lent a DVD, or a variety of other objects.

    The real definition of stealing is "Taking something unwillingly from the owner". Now with this definition there are some red flags going up, and some screaming that goes something like "But teh companies are loosing moneys by you're illegally downloads!" You are absolutely wrong poorly written quote! The sharing of media is fair use in the United States; if I have a DVD I'm allowed to lend it to whomever I like, me lending that DVD does not hurt the distributor of it at all. All I have taken from the distributor is the chance that the person I lent the DVD to would buy that DVD from the distributor. Note that this is a chance not 100%, just because I choose not to lend the DVD does not mean that the person is now going to automatically buy the DVD, they could decide that the DVD isn't worth their $20. This physical media scenario should hold true for the internet, but for some reason it does not.

    The main argument that media companies make is that it's not sharing because the person obtains an additional copy of the material. And while it might not be sharing, it most certainly is not stealing. It is not affecting the company's sales as explained above, and it is not costing the company any money either. This is another area of intellectual property that gets me: the steam vs origin thing. Origin got pissy at Steam for selling games on sale. Origin claimed that this devalued its intellectual property. In the sale of virtual media it costs a negligible amount to produce an additional copy of something, once development costs have been payed back, there are no variable costs to pay back, only fixed costs such as building costs, server maintenance, salaries, etc... Marginal Costs in this business model are extremely low, allowing for a large amount of profit after development costs have been made back.

    edit: Down with the wall of text that once was.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    The opposite is actually very true as well. Many people get a pirated copy, then decide they were glad they didn't buy it.
    This is one of my major gripes with the gaming/movie entertainment industry. If you don't like the product that you purchased, its basically tough tits! I do not condone piracy, however, it should be far easier to get a refund on a game that you thought was absolute crap. You appear to have no rights as game user, which considering the amount of money that sector generates now, it needs firming up.

    Yes you get adverts and what not, but they are just that, adverts, full of highlights to make the product look better than it is.

  5. #25
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svenforkbeard View Post
    This is one of my major gripes with the gaming/movie entertainment industry. If you don't like the product that you purchased, its basically tough tits! I do not condone piracy, however, it should be far easier to get a refund on a game that you thought was absolute crap. You appear to have no rights as game user, which considering the amount of money that sector generates now, it needs firming up.
    Not really. Returning anything means it needs to be new and unused.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  6. #26
    break the law to prevent people breaking a different law

    Fun stuff!

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral Decagon's Avatar
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    Hm, I didn't know most of that Gringot. I guess I should change my vote then. I've always been told that pirating was REALLY bad for the economy and therefore, for the consumer as well, I guess I was taught wrong (which happens a lot, living in Utah).
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    "And nothing was ever heard from Deca again"

  8. #28
    Thing these companies refuse to acknowledge is the profit pirating actually generates for them. About 75% of my DVD collection comes from material I first watched online, anyone else here own firefly on DVD but never saw it on TV?

    These companies are just ignorant fools desperate to milk every last cent they can, there is a reason people pirate before they pay and quite simply the majority of products are not worth the premium price tag they put on things.

  9. #29
    I am Murloc! StayTuned's Avatar
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    They are also not breaking "my internet" they are breaking the internet of the household. Why should I be responsible if my potential 20 years old son downloaded something from his computer using my internet?

    They can't do shit like that.

  10. #30
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    They are also not breaking "my internet" they are breaking the internet of the household. Why should I be responsible if my potential 20 years old son downloaded something from his computer using my internet?

    They can't do shit like that.
    That's specifically covered in the service agreement. You are responsible for letting them use your connection.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  11. #31
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    I still want to know how its possible to use dpi on fucking encrypted traffic, Because you can't.

    This just the 50th useless law thats been introduced against piracy that does literally nothing. Nobody with half a brain will ever torrent without using a vpn and encryption.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    That's specifically covered in the service agreement. You are responsible for letting them use your connection.
    And what about student houses, with many people sharing one internet connection? If one messes up, nobody will know who it was exactly and the contract owner has to live with it?

  13. #33
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeleh View Post
    These companies are just ignorant fools desperate to milk every last cent they can, there is a reason people pirate before they pay and quite simply the majority of products are not worth the premium price tag they put on things.
    You want to know why ISPs support it? Because massive uploading and downloading is more expensive for them. It saves the ISPs money when people aren't sharing massive files.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 12:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    And what about student houses, with many people sharing one internet connection? If one messes up, nobody will know who it was exactly and the contract owner has to live with it?
    They can just disconnect it.

    In addition, in dormitories generally students have to register with the universities internet in order to gain access.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  14. #34
    In my day, people pirated by giving friends disks for games.
    Now you sit anonymously at home and download from a person you don't even know.
    They are just encouraging people to go out and make friends - if you copy using USB drive, they won't punish you.

    I'm against piracy overall, but I think there can be exceptions for kids. ISP's have no way of knowing who's doing what, and so this seems reasonable.

  15. #35
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by someotherguy View Post
    'm against piracy overall, but I think there can be exceptions for kids. ISP's have no way of knowing who's doing what, and so this seems reasonable.
    This is where I disagree. Parents are legally responsible for their children.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Of course it's fair and legal. You are paying to use their service. If you are using their service to break the law, they are well within their rights to terminate your link to their service. People seriously need to start reading service agreements before signing.

    You don't like it? Form your own ISP.
    form my own ISP and break the law and go to jail?

  17. #37
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    form my own ISP and break the law and go to jail?
    Pretty much what would happen. ISPs disconnect uses that pirate to save their own ass from a lawsuit, and like I said earlier pirating generally uses a lot of bandwidth.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Pretty much what would happen. ISPs disconnect uses that pirate to save their own ass from a lawsuit, and like I said earlier pirating generally uses a lot of bandwidth.
    All of these companies that have agreed to this shit already screw their customers with bandwidth caps.
    I have a 60gb cap and thats the largest I can possibly get.

    Its not an issue of bandwidth being used. Today bandwidth is 1/1000th the price of the electricity used to have it travel. Maybe that would have been true in 1995 but not today. These companies have been price gouging for the last decade and refuse to upgrade their infrastructure and their response to pretty much every problem where they have a monopoly is "don't like it? Move." And are now selling out their customers to the blood thirsty government who will ruin lives without discrimination.

    Can google own the world yet?

  19. #39
    Bloodsail Admiral Mortisia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    ISPs can see that. If you encrypt the data by using a HTTPS proxy, they cannot see the data...but they can still seeing you're using a proxy and uploading / downloading in massive quantities.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 11:45 AM ----------

    That's not even close to a valid comparison.
    Which is legal and can not be punished by any means, I mean that's why you get "faster" internet...

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  20. #40
    considering there actually need to be a court case to decide if you pirated or not do we really think isps are going to start funding law suits and then losing customers.. so not only does it cost them money to start pointing the finger, they also lose a customer after the fact, one they probably will never get back..

    yeah this sounds like win win situation :/

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