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  1. #61
    ur forgetting something..it only took blood elves 2000 years to not look like night elves anymore and trolls and night elves still have alot of very common features. (ears,height,tusks..yes i said tusks..go look it up)
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  2. #62
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I wish they take back the Dark Troll---->Night Elf origins. It really hurt Night Elf lore IMO.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    It would surprise me if she was born a troll, because evolution takes place over the course of generations.
    Not in Pokemon!

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by sac View Post
    ur forgetting something..it only took blood elves 2000 years to not look like night elves anymore and trolls and night elves still have alot of very common features. (ears,height,tusks..yes i said tusks..go look it up)
    High Elves, aside from a smaller stature and more delicate features, are clearly elves. Long ears, long eyebrows, fangs, similar culture, etc. etc. Night Elf culture and Troll cultures have a lot more differences than similarities...
    Night Elves don't have tusks, at all, anywhere. They have fangs, fangs are not tusks, troll tusks come from the skull of the troll and out of the bottom of their mouths, Elven fangs are overgrown canine teeth. Night Elves don't have nasty feet with heel toes or whatever that thing is trolls have which looks almost like some kind of bird's foot. They have "normal" hands with 4 digits and a thumb and they aren't hunched over.
    Seriously, pointy ears and fangs are common place on countless creatures in wow. Same with tusks. Draenei can have purple skin, glowing eyes and pointy ears, they must be related to Night Elves. Orcs have tusks, green skin and pointy ears, they should be related to Trolls, no?

    However Zandalari trolls are getting a model revamp. *IF* and this is a big if, they make Zandalari trolls look more like *night elves* there could be something far more intriguing with this story...

    I wish they take back the Dark Troll---->Night Elf origins. It really hurt Night Elf lore IMO.
    Indeed. It was just one line in an out-of-print magazine anyways. They can wash it away as easily as they sneezed it forward. Really, they should.

  5. #65
    i like this it fits, however i would have thought it was more that she was the first niht elf born with immortality due to the well.
    night elves were around but not immortal yet and she was the first meaning her parents died from old age but as she didn't it's why she is stil around and they are not.
    it would make sence that the immortality came as they gained further attunament to the well, first it changed there form then a few generations later after being changed for a few gens in a row they were more in tune with the well, and possiblly all the shamans folowing the loa instead of arcane were gone meaning they were more free to "experiment" with the well and how it's waters efected them and how they effected it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelodalix View Post
    What the fuck did you just say.

  6. #66
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    as i stated some racial transformations happen within a generation and only when magic is invovled

    blood/ high elves are differnt because it was simply the after effects of a lack of that magical source

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  7. #67
    The Insane peggleftw's Avatar
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    i was always under the impression that they gradually evolved to night elves, over a long period of time
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by felhunter View Post
    all elves came from trolls, however around the time of queen azshara her rule they were elves already for quite some time. having build up their empire and such.
    beside elves werent immortal in those days, so it wouldnt be weird that several generations had already passed before she became the queen.
    Elves were immortal precisely before the downfall of azshara... the well kept them immortal, now elves arent immortal but they still live quite some time.

    Trolls arent immortal, but some trolls started to become empowered by magic so eventually they became elves and immortal.
    Just as human evolved from monkeys.

    Evolution is not a belief, its truth and science... We humans were little monkeys who got influenced by violence and became what we are now. :P

  9. #69
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    Elves were immortal precisely before the downfall of azshara... the well kept them immortal, now elves arent immortal but they still live quite some time.

    Trolls arent immortal, but some trolls started to become empowered by magic so eventually they became elves and immortal.
    Just as human evolved from monkeys.

    Evolution is not a belief, its truth and science... We humans were little monkeys who got influenced by violence and became what we are now. :P
    real life =/= wow

    kil'jeaden and archimonde within life time became demons
    fel orcs within a generation
    fel elves within a generation
    charmander into charmelion(sp) into charizard within a few hours

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  10. #70
    I do find the argument that the Night Elves had to evolve over time to be a bit silly in a world were rapid evolution is par for the course. Satyr, Naga, Jinyu, Fel Orcs, even Worgen, etc... are all examples of a race rapidly evolving into a new race due to outside factors. For all we know GennGreymane is both right AND wrong, because the Vrykul created a precedent where one race literally gave birth to another race right out of the womb. For all we know some trolls near the Well of Eternity literally pushed out long-eared, thick-browed babies with regular hands and feet, rather then being a base transformation or a long standing evolution.

  11. #71
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    I do find the argument that the Night Elves had to evolve over time to be a bit silly in a world were rapid evolution is par for the course. Satyr, Naga, Jinyu, Fel Orcs, even Worgen, etc... are all examples of a race rapidly evolving into a new race due to outside factors. For all we know GennGreymane is both right AND wrong, because the Vrykul created a precedent where one race literally gave birth to another race right out of the womb. For all we know some trolls near the Well of Eternity literally pushed out long-eared, thick-browed babies with regular hands and feet, rather then being a base transformation or a long standing evolution.

    I totally forgot about the human from vykrul thing

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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    Elves were immortal precisely before the downfall of azshara... the well kept them immortal, now elves arent immortal but they still live quite some time.
    Wrong. Night Elves (following the sundering) were gifted Immortality by Nozdormu to maintain their legacy, remind them of the terrible toll Azshara's rein exacted from themselves and the world, and as an additional benefit to defend Nordrassil at all costs since Nordrassil was the medium through which Nozdormu's boon protected them. Teldrassil did not receive his blessing, even after Malfurion cleansed it of nightmare corruption and Alexstrasza and Ysera reinstated their boons to the Kal'dorei via Teldrassil.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Wrong. Night Elves (following the sundering) were gifted Immortality by Nozdormu to maintain their legacy, remind them of the terrible toll Azshara's rein exacted from themselves and the world, and as an additional benefit to defend Nordrassil at all costs since Nordrassil was the medium through which Nozdormu's boon protected them. Teldrassil did not receive his blessing, even after Malfurion cleansed it of nightmare corruption and Alexstrasza and Ysera reinstated their boons to the Kal'dorei via Teldrassil.
    While that is all correct, it does not stop the fact they were also immortal during the time of Azshara, as the Well of Eternity itself was keeping them all young and alive. Azshara herself was tens of thousands of years old, but remained looking younger then most due to her magics and the WoE.

    When the Well of Eternity imploded, they became mortal, but Nozdormu allowed them to keep immortality so that they could carry on and protect the World Tree. All of Night Elf history has only known immortality, which is why now that they are officially mortal again, they are having a huge amount of trouble coping with it.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    While that is all correct, it does not stop the fact they were also immortal during the time of Azshara, as the Well of Eternity itself was keeping them all young and alive. Azshara herself was tens of thousands of years old, but remained looking younger then most due to her magics and the WoE.
    She wasn't tens of thousands of years old at the time of the War of the Ancients, I don't think that was mentioned. If she was ten thousand years old at the time of the War of the Ancients, there simply is no way, whatsoever, at all possible that Night Elves descended from Trolls in the context of the timelines laid out as she was *not* the first Night Elf, she inherited a kingdom, she didn't found it. It would've literally had to have been on par with the timelines of human evolution from earlier homonids. So 1 million years ago a group of proto-trolls split off and became the Night Elves, and this has nothing to do with magic, the well, or archaeology and written lore.

    When the Well of Eternity imploded, they became mortal, but Nozdormu allowed them to keep immortality so that they could carry on and protect the World Tree. All of Night Elf history has only known immortality, which is why now that they are officially mortal again, they are having a huge amount of trouble coping with it.
    They didn't really do a good job explaining this coping part. Sentinels knew death was a reality in their job description faced it down every time they went to battle, death was nothing they feared or had trouble coping with. No one getting decrepit or hyper-aging in the mere 10-15 years since Nordrassil was damaged. Darkshore NPCs succumbing to mortal injuries from the Cataclysm saying "this is what being mortal feels like" would be met with a raised eyebrow to any sentinel who suffered a mortal injury but received medical aid in time to save her life. The only coping Night Elves would have to do with losing their immortality is seeing themselves age... a thousand years down the road. Death from bodily injury, etc was a fact of life, even when they were immortal.

  15. #75
    I am Murloc! The Glitch's Avatar
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    Quite interested in the Well of Eternity and it's origin, I was thinking perhaps maybe it was the product of the Old Gods? Perhaps they *made* it for their own purposes? And could tie in with the using of it through the War of the Ancients as their main focal point trying to get back through to the *mortal plane*. Just a thought
    Last edited by The Glitch; 2012-11-26 at 05:29 PM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    They didn't really do a good job explaining this coping part. Sentinels knew death was a reality in their job description faced it down every time they went to battle, death was nothing they feared or had trouble coping with. No one getting decrepit or hyper-aging in the mere 10-15 years since Nordrassil was damaged. Darkshore NPCs succumbing to mortal injuries from the Cataclysm saying "this is what being mortal feels like" would be met with a raised eyebrow to any sentinel who suffered a mortal injury but received medical aid in time to save her life. The only coping Night Elves would have to do with losing their immortality is seeing themselves age... a thousand years down the road. Death from bodily injury, etc was a fact of life, even when they were immortal.
    The issue here is you are only mentioning the Sentinels, who are the warrior caste of the Night Elves. Obviously they are going to be able to cope with mortality, but the Sentinels don't make up the majority of the Night Elves, so you have to take into account the blacksmith, the baker, the owl trainer, the banker, the auctioneer, etc... Teldrassil itself was grown because Fandrel Staghelm and a large amount of night elves were scared of being mortal, so much so that they relocated nearly their entire civilization from Nighthaven to Darnassus to be close to the new tree, only for Nozdormu to say "What? No."

    Even now, on Pandaria, some of the Night Elves still cling to regaining immortality. To some, death can happen, to those behind the wall of Sentinals, death was never an inevitability.

  17. #77
    I think it was implied there were queens before her.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Wrong. Night Elves (following the sundering) were gifted Immortality by Nozdormu to maintain their legacy, remind them of the terrible toll Azshara's rein exacted from themselves and the world, and as an additional benefit to defend Nordrassil at all costs since Nordrassil was the medium through which Nozdormu's boon protected them. Teldrassil did not receive his blessing, even after Malfurion cleansed it of nightmare corruption and Alexstrasza and Ysera reinstated their boons to the Kal'dorei via Teldrassil.
    The Well of Eternity indeed granted Night Elves their immortality. Nordrassil was grown over the Second Well of Eternity to bprevent any more demonic incursions through it. It also dispelled its corrupting influence. Through Nordrassil and Nozdormu's blessing that linked them to the World Tree, the Night Elves had access to the Well's power to grant immortality once more, but without its corrupting effects. When Nordrassil was "destroyed", that link was broken, and the Night Elves became mortals.

  19. #79
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kage View Post
    I think it was implied there were queens before her.
    The night elves could have existed for 16.000 years max. This is the time the trolls beat the aqir and shortly afterwards their empires crumbled under Night elven onslaughts. Which means the night elven empire existed for roughly 6.000 years, there might have been several generations of night elves alive, when the burning legion struck.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The night elves could have existed for 16.000 years max. This is the time the trolls beat the aqir and shortly afterwards their empires crumbled under Night elven onslaughts. Which means the night elven empire existed for roughly 6.000 years, there might have been several generations of night elves alive, when the burning legion struck.
    Be aware, all we know is the Night Elves came blazing out of the area around the Well of Eternity and started destroying everything. It says nothing of them doing this straight after creation, for all we know, they existed by the Well of Eternity for thousands of years before that.

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