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  1. #101
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brirrspliff View Post
    this made me laugh. the horde would be quite happy to give those elves away. you can have the cows, too. oh, and please take your former humans back, too.

    orcs and trolls!
    If you throw the elves out you should be thorough, meaning no trolls, they are after all the root for everything elvish to begin with. ;P
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    If the Blood Elves recognize this fact, if they understand that what chased them away from the Alliance is no longer present in it, if they can get over this and express the desire to return, there is no doubt that they wouldn't be welcomed.
    That wasn't the only reason. Just read the questlines in the blood elf starting area. At the beginning, the blood elfs are rather neutral, however, due to some Alliance spys in blood elf territory and the fact that the Horde were the ones who actually helped them (Forsaken) taking back their territroy and fighting back the scoruge, it was a rather easy decision. Furthermore, night elves and blood elves still don't have much love for another, especially since the highborne have rejoined the night elves and are allowed to practice magic, something the blood elves were ejected for. To the blood elves, the night elves are hypocrites. The cleaning of Dalaran just strenghtened the distrust and hate of the blood elves against the Alliance.

  3. #103
    Stood in the Fire anisadora's Avatar
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    someone pointed out you could leave all existing bloodelves as horde, and change their starting zone to be one where they choose which side, having a bloodelf leader decide he was tired of the horde and goes to the alliance. you then choose which leader to follow.

    honestly, perhaps once garrosh is gone, you could also make all DKs choose which faction side to go to, with their letter. They argued they wouldnt do that (blizzard) because they wanted the silhouettes to say who was who for BGs... but now that we have pandaren, that isnt valid any longer. Though we still have bigotry with Garrosh. (I mean, he wont even let HORDE members into certain parts of Org. I highly doubt he'd let a dwarven deathknight join the horde, for example.)

  4. #104
    I really doubt, they may not have such good reputation among the races of the Horde (besides the Forsaken) but they was betrayed by the Alliance back in Warcraft III and left behind to die, the only way for them to join forces with the humans again is if they really don't have any other choices.

  5. #105
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Actually, making the Sin'dorei a neutral race in the model of the Pandaren would probably be the single most beneficial thing Blizzard could do for faction population balance.
    Uh, yeah, no. More like "shift the population balance to 3:1 in favor of Alliance across the board."


    And the blood elves aren't going to leave the Horde and rejoin the Alliance, not after 5.1, not after what Jaina does to the Sunreavers, certainly not while Rommath and Lor'themar are in charge of Quel'thalas and Jaina's in charge of the Kirin Tor.

    Jaina is replaying the very scenario that drove the blood elves away from the Alliance of Lordaeron to begin with, the imprisoning of Kael'thas and his followers in the prisons of Dalaran during the Third War.

    Even if Jaina's actions were justified, she's reopening wounds and wrecking Varian's attempt to repatriate the sin'dorei. In his own words, she drives them further into the Horde.

    At best, the blood elves will work with Varian in order to help ensure the downfall of Hellscream, but with Hellscream out of the picture they'll no doubt remain part of the Horde.


    Perhaps someday high elves will be made available to the Alliance, with unique models and racials. I think the 5.1 incidents illustrate that the blood elves are far from ready to let bygones be bygones.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    I feel like this should be brought to light for a moment -

    Kael'thas worked with GARITHOS who was acting commander of LORDERON. At the time, they were part of the "Alliance" but this was before Archimonde touched down.

    The Alliance from then, and the one we see now are completely different thanks to: NELVES, DRAENEI, WORGEN, PANDAREN, and STORMWIND HUMANS.

    Garithos held a view very similar to the Scarlet Crusade: non-humans are filth.
    Stormwind rebukes that view, and is very open and tolerant of other (allied) races, and even some not so allied.

    Their interactions with Tauren tend to be more peaceful, and thanks to dealings with the Silver Covenant, High Elves are definitely not the second class citizen that Garithos wanted them to be.

    Through our expedition to Outland, the Alliance gained strong allies in the form of Broken, Ethereals, and the Naaru. When we ventured to Northrend, we bonded with Tuskaar. The cataclysm brought the worgen into our midst, whom we thought were savage beasts prior to this event. And now, with the Jinyu and Pandaren joining, the Alliance has become a paragon of diversity.

    If the Blood Elves recognize this fact, if they understand that what chased them away from the Alliance is no longer present in it, if they can get over this and express the desire to return, there is no doubt that they wouldn't be welcomed.

    There would be suspicion. Very much so... but that would wash away in time as old ties of brotherhood are renewed.
    Even if agree that blood elves letting bygones be bygones would be the smart chice (they already sort of did with Dalaran) it is not fair to relieve the alliance of their guilt in the whole shebang. Not all the praises and colorful expressions in the world could hide the fact that the alliance, as any other organization, has wronged other. Garithos was the highest member of the Alliance in Lordaeron, his word was command, that was why the dalaran survivors and the ironforge forces obeyed him, even when he sentenced the blood elves to death. They just turned their heads. Now everyone is quick to say that it was just the work of a bigoted individual, when the facts are more complex and gray.

    Let's not sweep things under the rug; this fad of whitewashing the alliance's mistakes and painting them as the ultimate selfless most virtuous people evar is dissapointing. If you cannot look honestly at the facts and weigh in mistakes and victories you are bound to be corrupted by bias.

  7. #107
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Even if agree that blood elves letting bygones be bygones would be the smart chice (they already sort of did with Dalaran) it is not fair to relieve the alliance of their guilt in the whole shebang. Not all the praises and colorful expressions in the world could hide the fact that the alliance, as any other organization, has wronged other. Garithos was the highest member of the Alliance in Lordaeron, his word was command, that was why the dalaran survivors and the ironforge forces obeyed him, even when he sentenced the blood elves to death. They just turned their heads. Now everyone is quick to say that it was just the work of a bigoted individual, when the facts are more complex and gray.

    Let's not sweep things under the rug; this fad of whitewashing the alliance's mistakes and painting them as the ultimate selfless most virtuous people evar is dissapointing. If you cannot look honestly at the facts and weigh in mistakes and victories you are bound to be corrupted by bias.
    You may have a point, but it doesn't really matter, both parties are to blame for the escalation and the resulting mistrust and outright hatred. They rarely acknowledge the standpoint of the other and as such are stuck in their ways. Elves and Alliance simply aren't willing to make the necessary steps for true reconciliation.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    You may have a point, but it doesn't really matter, both parties are to blame for the escalation and the resulting mistrust and outright hatred. They rarely acknowledge the standpoint of the other and as such are stuck in their ways. Elves and Alliance simply aren't willing to make the necessary steps for true reconciliation.
    Of course, the befallen blame on the blood elves for their own actions is not an issue to me. They made a lot of mistakes that ranged from misguided to downright evil in some cases, I do not intent to hide their sins. That's why I take issue with people that don't take into consideration that neither party is free of guilt, it bothers me how mainstream this trend of whitewashing the alliance has become.

  9. #109
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Of course, the befallen blame on the blood elves for their own actions is not an issue to me. They made a lot of mistakes that ranged from misguided to downright evil in some cases, I do not intent to hide their sins. That's why I take issue with people that don't take into consideration that neither party is free of guilt, it bothers me how mainstream this trend of whitewashing the alliance has become.
    Well it might be reaction to some players, who desperately tried to whitewash the horde and most of what the Horde did recently is ruthless calculus at least . Though it is a shame people are unwilling to accept the flaws of their races/factions.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by anisadora View Post
    someone pointed out you could leave all existing bloodelves as horde, and change their starting zone to be one where they choose which side, having a bloodelf leader decide he was tired of the horde and goes to the alliance.
    maybe have those people who were convincing everyone not to join the horde and re ally with the alliance in silvermoon who got brainwashed come out and convince people that they should go to the alliance.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Well it might be reaction to some players, who desperately tried to whitewash the horde and most of what the Horde did recently is ruthless calculus at least . Though it is a shame people are unwilling to accept the flaws of their races/factions.
    I have a strange reaction to this, now that I think about it. I consider horde whitewashing trolling, because no-one could seriously believe that what that faction is doing in some parts is warranted. I don't really take it seriously. It's warmongering and mindless. But is the level of self-righteousness that some allies exude is what ultimately made me go horde. There's just too much people with this line of thinking in the alliance for my taste. I don't do moral absolutes.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    I have a strange reaction to this, now that I think about it. I consider horde whitewashing trolling, because no-one could seriously believe that what that faction is doing in some parts is warranted. I don't really take it seriously. It's warmongering and mindless. But is the level of self-righteousness that some allies exude is what ultimately made me go horde. There's just too much people with this line of thinking in the alliance for my taste. I don't do moral absolutes.
    one of my main problems with the alliance is that even blizz seems to be a bit whitewash with them from time to time. i love what there doing in mists though and i hope we get to see more of this darker more rigid part of the alliance.

    i want more shooting surrendering soldiers and more si:7 doing dark stuff to win battles
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  13. #113
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    I have a strange reaction to this, now that I think about it. I consider horde whitewashing trolling, because no-one could seriously believe that what that faction is doing in some parts is warranted. I don't really take it seriously. It's warmongering and mindless. But is the level of self-righteousness that some allies exude is what ultimately made me go horde. There's just too much people with this line of thinking in the alliance for my taste. I don't do moral absolutes.
    Oh everything can be justified, that doesn't make it morally right. People tend to idolize their chosen factions and try to minimize its flaws, though these flaws make those races/factions more understandable and ultimately more human. I can't really wrap my head around the prospect of moral superiority, since in one way or another the same morals get tarnished regardless.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  14. #114
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Oh everything can be justified, that doesn't make it morally right. People tend to idolize their chosen factions and try to minimize its flaws, though these flaws make those races/factions more understandable and ultimately more human. I can't really wrap my head around the prospect of moral superiority, since in one way or another the same morals get tarnished regardless.
    I do think that the alliance is a bit more morally superior to be honest; at least, they don't compromise their ethics as much as the horde races that are willing to do very questionable things to secure their survival and their place in the world (Baine, Vol'jin and Lor'Themar follow Garrosh, reluctantly, but still) Yet, this is exactly like Theron's quote from "In the Shadow of the Sun" that you pointed out in the other thread. There are several shadowy things going around in the alliance, but get written off as "marginalized" groups within it. That way then can have their cake and eat it too. On the other hand, the horde is messier and dirtier, but with the horribleness in plain sight, instead of being kept in shadowy corners, at least you know where you stand and don't delude yourself.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    I do think that the alliance is a bit more morally superior to be honest; at least, they don't compromise their ethics as much as the horde races that are willing to do very questionable things to secure their survival and their place in the world (Baine, Vol'jin and Lor'Themar follow Garrosh, reluctantly, but still) Yet, this is exactly like Theron's quote from "In the Shadow of the Sun" that you pointed out in the other thread. There are several shadowy things going around in the alliance, but get written off as "marginalized" groups within it. That way then can have their cake and eat it too. On the other hand, the horde is messier and dirtier, but with the horribleness in plain sight, instead of being kept in shadowy corners, at least you know where you stand and don't delude yourself.
    It doesnt show alliance as moraly superior, but as hypocrites.

  16. #116
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    It doesnt show alliance as moraly superior, but as hypocrites.
    Not necessarily; sure, as a whole, it might be a valid statement, but if you see the different factions withing and their own ethics, there are some of them that do not compromise and can honestly claim ignorance of the most unsavory deals, even act against in case of getting the cat out of the bag. It's not as simple as to sum all the deeds and statements into one ecuation.

  17. #117
    Blizzard stated that Alliance lacked a fearsome, startling class and gave them worgens. They also said while alliance had gnomes, horde lacked the "comic relief" or whacky aspect of a race. So they got goblins.

    I assume by that logic, blizzard would never swap Blood elves back to alliance. Horde needs a "elegant and refined" race amidst their weird and motley line-up.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by wheelmandan View Post
    I know this is just lore story but could they come back to the allies?
    no but i belive if next expansion is about burning legion and if turalyon and alleria windrunner returns then its quite possible we will see highelfs return to the alliance and they will have two potential leaders. Vereesa and alleria windrunner along with turalyon and it would also be quite awesome seeing highelfs fighting belfs. If thats the case then i hope horde will get ogres since there is a horde loyal tribe in dustwallow marsh also if rexxar rejoins horde he might bring in the bulk of the outland ogres he befriended.

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