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  1. #141
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffs View Post
    It quite literally left them because they stopped believing in it.
    Given the circumstances I would have a problem to keep believing if most of my family is dead my homeland in utter ruins and almost everyone I knew was dead or worse.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  2. #142
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Most blood elves had a mindset of Liadrin they thought the light abandoned them, and they thought using it that way was just for all the pain they suffered. That changed quite dratically after the restoration of the Sunwell.

    Lady Liadrin says: My brothers and sisters, words cannot describe what I felt upon seeing the Sunwell rekindled.
    Lady Liadrin says: In that moment, the Light revealed to me the truth of the terrible things I had done.
    Lady Liadrin says: Our people had walked a dark path and mine was among the darkest of them all.
    Lady Liadrin says: But the Light showed me that I was not lost. It helped me to find the strength to survive in spite of all that had happened and all the evil I had wrought.
    Lady Liadrin says: It is a strength that we sin'dorei all share. It is a strength we will need to free ourselves of the addiction ravaging our people.
    Lady Liadrin says: It will be the most difficult battle we have ever faced, but our resolve and the power of the Sunwell will sustain us until we have been restored to our greatness.



    Well you are allowed to be quite delusional, if 90% of your entire race gets massacred wouldn't you agree.
    Then they don't understand the Light.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Would you trust something so self-centered?
    Is that being self-centered or is it respecting choice?

  4. #144
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Then they don't understand the Light.
    The light is but a source of energy anyone can use for good and evil, the scarlet crusade is proof to that. It isn't the epitome of good.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  5. #145
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Would you trust something so self-centered?
    I have the perfect response to that, but I can't because it's against the forum rules

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Given the circumstances I would have a problem to keep believing if most of my family is dead my homeland in utter ruins and almost everyone I knew was dead or worse.
    Here's the difference, our happy thoughts cant shoot magic holy bolts and instantly heal a gutted stomach.
    They have tangible proof that "Not being a prick gives you magic powers".

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-26 at 12:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The light is but a source of energy anyone can use for good and evil, the scarlet crusade is proof to that. It isn't the epitome of good.
    I'm of the opinion the light, as a player, is powered by the urge to do good, not necessarily doing it.
    The Scarlet Crusade thought they were doing the right thing for instance.
    I am not a racist, I am a melting pot of friendship
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Bows were made for tools of war. They go in the same pot as guns. There is ZERO reason to own a bow in 2014. Tools of war have no place in civilian homes.
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  7. #147
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffs View Post
    Here's the difference, our happy thoughts cant shoot magic holy bolts and instantly heal a gutted stomach.
    They have tangible proof that "Not being a prick gives you magic powers".
    The scarlet crusade likes to have a word with you the light can be used for evil as well.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-26 at 09:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffs View Post

    I'm of the opinion the light, as a player, is powered by the urge to do good, not necessarily doing it.
    The Scarlet Crusade thought they were doing the right thing for instance.
    So does Garrosh and Sylvanas, does that make their actions good ? If the light truly supported only good people the crusaders wouldn't be able to use it.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2012-11-26 at 08:38 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  8. #148
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The light is but a source of energy anyone can use for good and evil, the scarlet crusade is proof to that. It isn't the epitome of good.
    Yeah it doesn't have anything to do with good or evil, you just have to believe in it. It's a faith thing. I mean the Holy Light is very close to religion. But I don't think we can be sure that the Naaru and the Holy Light are one and the same thing now can we? Then how can you justify torturing a Naaru because the Holy Light is a bitch?

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post

    So does Garrosh and Sylvanas, does that make their actions good ? If the light truly supported only good people the crusaders wouldn't be able to use it.
    As I just said, it seems to be powered by the desire to do good, even if the action isn't necessarily good.
    With Sylvanas, if that short story can be trusted is doing what she does for herself, not for the forsaken.
    Regarding Garrosh, he doesn't seem to care about magic in general.
    I am not a racist, I am a melting pot of friendship
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Bows were made for tools of war. They go in the same pot as guns. There is ZERO reason to own a bow in 2014. Tools of war have no place in civilian homes.
    A PROGRESSIVE SOCIETY FREE OF HATE

    VANTUCKY PRIDE WORLD WIDE

  10. #150
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Yeah it doesn't have anything to do with good or evil, you just have to believe in it. It's a faith thing. I mean the Holy Light is very close to religion. But I don't think we can be sure that the Naaru and the Holy Light are one and the same thing now can we? Then how can you justify torturing a Naaru because the Holy Light is a bitch?
    Because it was there, and they knew its powers were light based and it was strong against undead, who were about to finish what they started a few years prior, as cruel as that sounds sometimes you have to compromise your morals for mere survival the blood elves did a lot of shady things in order to stay alive and this is one of the most prominent.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-26 at 09:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffs View Post
    As I just said, it seems to be powered by the desire to do good, even if the action isn't necessarily good.
    With Sylvanas, if that short story can be trusted is doing what she does for herself, not for the forsaken.
    Regarding Garrosh, he doesn't seem to care about magic in general.
    That wasn't really the point, if the desire to spread good means the extermination of countless of innocents how can something like that be considered good in the first place? The answer it can't be and as such the light can't be considered good either it is just a form of energy like the arcane.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2012-11-26 at 08:45 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  11. #151
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Because it was there, and they knew its powers were light based and it was strong against undead, who were about to finish what they started a few years prior, as cruel as that sounds sometimes you have to compromise your morals for mere survival the blood elves did a lot of shady things in order to stay alive and this is one of the most prominent.
    So was it really necessary or just convenient?

  12. #152
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    So was it really necessary or just convenient?
    Maybe a bit of both, with Muru they had a new way to fight the encroaching scourge, their situation was rather grim. Could they have survived without the blood knights? Maybe, but their chances would have dropped significantly.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    That wasn't really the point, if the desire to spread good means the extermination of countless of innocents how can something like that be considered good in the first place? The answer it can't be and as such the light can't be considered good either it is just a form of energy like the arcane.
    Because, in their mind they are doing good. I'm not going to argue if the energy itself is good, but simply what powers it.
    If they got over themselves and looked at the tangible evidence, that happy thoughts=magic, they could do it. It's not the end all be all, but it is a power source they had 100% control over.
    I am not a racist, I am a melting pot of friendship
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Bows were made for tools of war. They go in the same pot as guns. There is ZERO reason to own a bow in 2014. Tools of war have no place in civilian homes.
    A PROGRESSIVE SOCIETY FREE OF HATE

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  14. #154
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Maybe a bit of both, with Muru they had a new way to fight the encroaching scourge, their situation was rather grim. Could they have survived without the blood knights? Maybe, but their chances would have dropped significantly.
    But in the end it makes them no better than the Scourge.

  15. #155
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffs View Post
    Because, in their mind they are doing good. I'm not going to argue if the energy itself is good, but simply what powers it.
    If they got over themselves and looked at the tangible evidence, that happy thoughts=magic, they could do it. It's not the end all be all, but it is a power source they had 100% control over.
    Well if you won't argue that the light is ultimately good you are correct, since the elves as a people were shattered and more less still in the mourning process, I guess some of them still are, after such a traumatic experience only the most devoted believers would be able to keep their faith.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-26 at 09:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    But in the end it makes them no better than the Scourge.
    Torturing a single being in order to protect tens of thousands of innocents makes them as bad as the scourge?
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2012-11-26 at 08:55 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    But in the end it makes them no better than the Scourge.
    the scourge is not bad.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/The_Decree_of_the_Scourge

    "The largest misconception the living have of the Scourge is our penchant for what is considered 'evil.' For the sake of demoralization we allow this error to perpetuate, and indeed spread it on our own. The true nature of The Scourge is our transcendence of the shackles that keep any of the living races from becoming as prosperous as we.

    For example: What benefits do emotion and honor really hold? They serve to validate the living, to make them feel 'good.' Now, what flaws do they hold? Emotion is directly correlated to the ignorance of logic and reason. Honor is, at most times, the sole perpetrator of able resources fighting a losing battle. It is baffling even to me that the living can be so unaware of how eager we are to play the part of their villain, to nurture their greatest flaws by becoming the embodiment of all that incites irrational behavior."
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  17. #157
    Just a quick bit of info. Not all of the Blood Elves gave up on the Light. While the power of Muru were used to fuel the Blood Knights, the Priests were still using the magic the old fashioned way, which is why they were not located in the same location as the Blood Knights. The whole thing with the Blood Knights was basically a sect of warriors, who felt that the Light "abandoned" them because the Light didn't stop the fall of Quel'Thalas. When they were gifted Muru, they felt they had the perfect method to bend the Light itself to their will and gain it's "full potential" rather then whatever the chuckle head priests were using, which they felt was a weak form of the Light. In other words, they felt the Light was holding out on them, and Muru was the conduit to take that power to it's full potential.

  18. #158
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Torturing a single being in order to protect tens of thousands of innocents makes them as bad as the scourge?
    Torturing an innocent being for their own ends.

    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    the scourge is not bad.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/The_Decree_of_the_Scourge

    "The largest misconception the living have of the Scourge is our penchant for what is considered 'evil.' For the sake of demoralization we allow this error to perpetuate, and indeed spread it on our own. The true nature of The Scourge is our transcendence of the shackles that keep any of the living races from becoming as prosperous as we.

    For example: What benefits do emotion and honor really hold? They serve to validate the living, to make them feel 'good.' Now, what flaws do they hold? Emotion is directly correlated to the ignorance of logic and reason. Honor is, at most times, the sole perpetrator of able resources fighting a losing battle. It is baffling even to me that the living can be so unaware of how eager we are to play the part of their villain, to nurture their greatest flaws by becoming the embodiment of all that incites irrational behavior."
    Scourge propaganda.

  19. #159
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Torturing an innocent being for their own ends.
    It is one being against almost the entire remains of a species, if you think about it logically it is almost a no brainer.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Scourge propaganda.
    the scourge has no need for propaganda. all members of the scourge can be and are directly mind controled by the lich king and his most trusted minions. the scourge doesn't want the living to know they aren't actually evil, as it's written on that book, because it serves their purpose. why do you think zeliek is one of the four horsemen? it's definitely not due to propaganda lol
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

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