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  1. #1

    Windsong vs Jade Spirit (Boomkin)

    Does anybody happen to have the math for these two enchants? I guess it would be kind of hard since Windsong has no set icd but I would love to hear peoples thoughts about these two enchants. For all i know right now, Jade spirit is better even though it costs alot more gold, however looking at lappe (shame on me for doing this because i shouldnt just assume things from what higher end boomkins are doing) he has windsong which leads me to believe that it is better.

  2. #2
    I think Lappé has his own theorycrafting - at some points in progression he's valued mastery over haste, he's ignored the haste cap etc., so looking at him, and him alone, may not give you the information you're looking for. I checked Blood Legion and Method's raider rank moonkins, and of the 5; only one has Windsong (and he's 8-9 ilvls below all the other ones).

    The thing is, which one is better depends a bit on your own gear - both stat-wise and item level wise. Blizzard clarified on how the enchants were working (PPM - Proc Per Minute system) - clarification on how this works: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...3549789?page=1

    Also, http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...789?page=6#110 -
    In 5.1, we’re migrating four additional procs over to the Real PPM system. Dancing Steel and Jade Spirit are 2 Real PPM, River's Song is 4 Real PPM, and Colossus is 6 Real PPM.
    I can't tell you which one is better for you, but you could always input your character, gear and stats into WrathCalcs (which can be found at http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130885-...on/#WrathCalcs ) and that should tell you which one is better for you!
    "Such insolence... such arrogance... must be PUNISHED!"

  3. #3
    High Overlord Xenophos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zareth View Post
    I think Lappé has his own theorycrafting - at some points in progression he's valued mastery over haste, he's ignored the haste cap etc., so looking at him, and him alone, may not give you the information you're looking for. I checked Blood Legion and Method's raider rank moonkins, and of the 5; only one has Windsong (and he's 8-9 ilvls below all the other ones).

    The thing is, which one is better depends a bit on your own gear - both stat-wise and item level wise. Blizzard clarified on how the enchants were working (PPM - Proc Per Minute system) - clarification on how this works: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...3549789?page=1

    Also, http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...789?page=6#110 -


    I can't tell you which one is better for you, but you could always input your character, gear and stats into WrathCalcs (which can be found at http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130885-...on/#WrathCalcs ) and that should tell you which one is better for you!
    The mastery thing could also be for doing challenge modes.
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    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zareth View Post
    I can't tell you which one is better for you, but you could always input your character, gear and stats into WrathCalcs (which can be found at http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130885-...on/#WrathCalcs ) and that should tell you which one is better for you!
    I love WrathCalcs, but realize that it's also built for a very specific type of fight, so sometimes you need to take even that with a grain of salt. For example, WrathCalcs is consistently showing Heart of the Wild/Soul of the Forest as top DPS, and I've yet to see an encounter where that rings true over Incarnation/Nature's Vigil. (It also doesn't model Stormstrike iirc).

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  5. #5
    K so i am messing with wrathcals but the drop down boxes for gems and enchants say err:502.

  6. #6
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythiix View Post
    K so i am messing with wrathcals but the drop down boxes for gems and enchants say err:502.
    Make sure you're using Excel (not OpenOffice), enabled macros, and I believe you need to run 32-bit Excel, it has some issues with 64-bit.

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  7. #7
    Thanks for the quick responses Sunfyre! So i got all of this working now but after doing so i found that it was showing windsong being about +1900 more dps for me than jade spirit. That seemed quite large so i went and tried it on the t14H bis list and then it showed windsong being about 2700 more dps. With jade spirit on the bis i came out with 106801.82 and then when i plugged in windsong i got 109502.78. I feel like i am doing something wrong here. If someone would be nice enough to double check my character before I change to windsong that would be awesome! Here's my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thiix/advanced

  8. #8
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythiix View Post
    Thanks for the quick responses Sunfyre! So i got all of this working now but after doing so i found that it was showing windsong being about +1900 more dps for me than jade spirit. That seemed quite large so i went and tried it on the t14H bis list and then it showed windsong being about 2700 more dps. With jade spirit on the bis i came out with 106801.82 and then when i plugged in windsong i got 109502.78. I feel like i am doing something wrong here. If someone would be nice enough to double check my character before I change to windsong that would be awesome! Here's my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thiix/advanced
    I plugged you in and something's odd in your profile, it's missing 165 spirit somewhere versus what I actually see on your armory. After manually punching that in, I show you at 87004.47 DPS with Jade Spirit, Windsong at 86659.

    Make sure you go to the last pages to find the most recent copy of WrathCalcs. 121026 is the most recent, which is here.

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  9. #9
    Tyvm! Could the -165 spirit be from my leg enchant? The numbers just matched perfectly. I am using the 285 int 165 spirit.

  10. #10
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    I plugged you in and something's odd in your profile, it's missing 165 spirit somewhere versus what I actually see on your armory. After manually punching that in, I show you at 87004.47 DPS with Jade Spirit, Windsong at 86659.

    Make sure you go to the last pages to find the most recent copy of WrathCalcs. 121026 is the most recent, which is here.
    Yeah, it has been showing windsong is better for me too, I thought that it is just a bug>.>
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  11. #11
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythiix View Post
    Tyvm! Could the -165 spirit be from my leg enchant? The numbers just matched perfectly. I am using the 285 int 165 spirit.
    Yep, you're right, it is the leg enchant. Not feeling well today so I didn't hunt too hard for it. Are you still having the same number problems with the newest version of WrathCalcs? I'm showing Jade Spirit slightly better.

    I believe 5.1 is introducing PPM to Jade Spirit though which should give it higher uptime (hopefully). Right now it's a very close call.

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  12. #12
    Reason it's better is cause atm it's not on the new PPM system. In 5.1, it'll be better.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome lappee's Avatar
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    i just thought of saying hi

    so HI!

    if theres any actual questions involving me, you can ask them here or just in PM (you can also PM to remind me of this thread..)

  14. #14
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    i just thought of saying hi

    so HI!

    if theres any actual questions involving me, you can ask them here or just in PM (you can also PM to remind me of this thread..)
    you re not the real Lappe

  15. #15
    Mechagnome lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikoslav View Post
    you re not the real Lappe
    feel free to think that

  16. #16
    The Patient
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    ok, maybe you are

    can you tell us what is your view on boomkin as a class in MoP?
    I mean - is it more difficult to play than other classes? (at medium level, as well as at top hard mode level)
    Thanks for your opinion

    also, even more important for me is your view of Soul of the forest talent + HotW, is it valid to play in PVE?
    or it is in reality much weaker than Incarnation + Nature's Vigil?
    Last edited by mikoslav; 2012-11-26 at 10:39 AM.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikoslav View Post
    ok, maybe you are

    can you tell us what is your view on boomkin as a class in MoP?
    I mean - is it more difficult to play than other classes? (at medium level, as well as at top hard mode level)
    Thanks for your opinion

    also, even more important for me is your view of Soul of the forest talent + HotW, is it valid to play in PVE?
    or it is in reality much weaker than Incarnation + Nature's Vigil?
    Moonkin has always been really simple, its still lacking the cutting edge complexity in my opinion.

    and as for SotF and HotW both of them are valid options, its more of a playstyle and encounter specific question whether you'll use them or not

  18. #18
    I average 4-5 PPM with Windsong, Jade Spirit has an ICD so you'll get ~1 PPM with it till 5.1 goes into effect.


    Even if you only get mastery procs with Windsong, at 4-5 PPM, it's the better enchant stat wise. The only thing Jade Spirit has going for it is consistency, to some raiders, that is more important.

    You decide with your play style, do you want a consistent int buff, or do you want to gamble a little with a much larger payout.

    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Moonkin has always been really simple, its still lacking the cutting edge complexity in my opinion.

    and as for SotF and HotW both of them are valid options, its more of a playstyle and encounter specific question whether you'll use them or not
    What encounters do you see yourself using SotF? I haven't really seen a use for it since we don't really spend that much time between eclipse states now with the energy bonus.
    Last edited by earthwormjim; 2012-11-26 at 12:08 PM.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    What encounters do you see yourself using SotF? I haven't really seen a use for it since we don't really spend that much time between eclipse states now with the energy bonus
    one can use soft on any encounter they like. as i said its more about the playstyle and personally i prefer to have somekind of a cd, unless im forced to go with hotw (and even then its really encounter specific)

    in theory SotF fits for encounters that dont require burst dmg, or in other words requires constant damage for various reasons. also as SotF favours dot + starsurge spam, it can be used for constant multidot encounters aswell.

  20. #20
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikoslav View Post
    you re not the real Lappe
    It's him.

    Lappe, do you see yourself going to Jade Spirit once it's changed to RPPM, or favoring it for more encounters?

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