1. #1

    so darn confused duh..

    so i got a new piece last night so simmed myself as always to get the right stat choice. wich for me was int>mastery>haste>crit. but when i use the optimiser on ask mr robot it goes lower on haste when the break point at 4200 aint that a dps loss? . atleast from what i could see on the affliction guide video on mmo it was stated you should go for 4200 or 4700 and when mastery? am prob just stupid who dont know it works any help would e rly greatful tho .
    thx alot in advance /sry for bad spelling ^.^

  2. #2
    I think mr.robot doesnt take breakpoints into account
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  3. #3
    are their any better reforge site wich take it into acount?

  4. #4
    Reforge sites pretty much just weight all the stats and try to maximize the total. It's hard to evaluate the value of a breakpoint in a static manner. As always, simming your own character is the best thing to do (believe that over this robot thing for sure). Take the weights from simcraft and put them in the ReforgeLite addon in-game to do reforges. Then use the reforge graph if you really want to get nitty-gritty about it, to see the best balance between haste and mastery.

  5. #5
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    I know AMR assumes you have full raid buffs present when it gives you numbers to hit.

  6. #6
    Just use reforgelite addon. Its easy to use and you can set for example Spell hitcap > haste 4200 > mastery and press one button and it reforges all your items for you. curse.com/addons/wow/reforgelite

  7. #7
    RFL is garbage since they removed the iterations feature

  8. #8
    Don't use AskMrRobot. There's really no reason for anyone that doesn't have a full understanding of secondary stats and how they relate to playstyle or the ramifications to follow the suggestions of AMR, and even if they do AMR is flat out wrong in a lot of ways. Everyone asking questions/not sure what's going on should set their Affliction priorities like this:

    Int > SP > Hit to cap > Haste to 4717 > Mastery > Haste > Crit.

    There are a lot of ways in which that isn't perfect but if you don't know why it isn't perfect then it's pointless to spend time agonizing over it. The above should be *good enough* in most situations.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    RFL is garbage since they removed the iterations feature
    Last time i used it, there is still a slider providing you a way of selecting how thorough (hope it's the right way to write it) the search will be. As far as i recall, the more you slide it to the left, the better the result, up to the point where it reaches the allocated search time and says "no better answer", then you slide it a little right, and restart.

  10. #10
    Hey, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. We do in fact account for Haste Breakpoints. We don't have any set in Affliction locks by default, however you can add it in. Click on the "Edit Weights" button and add it in as the final % you want to reach. Here's an example for an Affliction Lock (click Edit Weights to see how it's typed in). I also have a blog post about Haste Ratings and conversions that might be helpful. And last but not least, here's another thread on MMO-C about Warlock Haste breakpoints.

    Mortaz, once you put in your Haste Breakpoint, Mr. Robot will do what you expect. IF you give me your character name and realm, I'd be happy to set it up for you as well.

    Rustjive -if you can give an example of what has been wrong, I'll look into it. It's either a misunderstanding that I can clear up (and make more clear on our site), or it's a bug (in which case, we really want to fix it right away). It would be very helpful
    Last edited by Zoopercat; 2012-11-26 at 08:23 PM.
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  11. #11
    thx alot zoop i do infact love the site feels easy to use. had missed the part were you could fit in wich breakpoint to go after so was my own mistake

  12. #12
    This is what I wrote the last time I wrote that the way AMR does things is bad: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post18702232

    Of course, the enchant criticism no longer applies - but even common sense will tell you that since you have 1 set of stat weights that applies no matter what gear level the player is at (Int - 4.53, Mastery - 2.82, etc.) that you're bound to be wrong.

  13. #13
    Mortaz - excellent! I know there are a lot of things to learn about the tool. Glad you like it. Here's a tutorial written by Hoofit that might help with other things.

    Rustjive, thanks! I thought your name sounded familiar, but figured maybe I am just reading too many posts to keep up on theorycrafting. Anyway, your feedback was heard!

    1. Regarding Haste: we still believe percentages are the way to go - the point is you're trying to reach a certain percent, no need to break it apart into Haste Rating from gear vs percentages from raid buffs. So we'll have to agree to disagree on this one

    2. Hit Caps - we launched a feature recently (maybe 3-4 weeks ago), to force hit caps!! (woohoo!). You can turn this on by opening the options menu (it's toward the bottom).

    3. Default stat weights: they are editable. We provide at least 1 default for all classes and specs, and some of them have 2-3. These will build up for all specs over time. However, you can edit the weights as much as you like, making it a powerful tool. This is just like wowreforge - they provide a starting point, but let you edit them. In fact, they use our defaults for a lot of their classes now.

    4. Enchant (updated, as you already stated)

    Hope that helps! I try to keep track of feedback by writing everyone's name down so I can PM them when we do updates. But I think I missed yours, because I don't see an update to you in my pm outbox. I'm super sorry about that
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    ...
    Okay. Having tried it out, here are my current issues -

    My current reforge is Int > Hit > 6637 Haste > Mastery > Haste > Crit with Int roughly equivalent to double Mastery. So I import my character and I check the force Hit/Exp cap checkbox:
    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/destromath/rvst

    And I set these as my custom weights:
    Int: 5.14, SP: 3.71, Spell Hit: 3, Haste: 2.82 (Soft Cap 0.21396, Value after Cap: 0.1), Mastery: 2.57, Crit: 0.

    The net difference is that I trade in 240 INT for 378 Mastery, 1 Hit, and 101 Haste - basically it converted 2 of my Reckless gems into 2 Quick gems and then tried to find a better reforge.

    There's 1 obvious bug - it's tell me to use an Ember Primal over a Burning Primal meta. The other bug, at first glance, seems to be that it calculates stat weights/improvement based on pre-soft capped stat weights. This is why it had me trade my INT for Mastery (even though I set them to be equivalent, gem-wise). But that's not the actual bug - the actual bug is that the Jade Spirit enchant messes it up. When I force it to the Windsong enchant it gives me the correct reforge. This probably shouldn't be happening.

    As a note, Windsong is probably better than Jade Spirit in practice. I don't have the math to support this because PPM gives me a headache, but check uptime for any DoT class and the difference is pretty obvious.

  15. #15
    RE: Windsong vs Jade Spirit: we simulated all of the proc'd enchants and you can see the results here. If you use Jade Spirit, your score actually goes up However, that might change with 5.1 since the Jade Spirit mechanic to a real PPM as well (it will likely get even better, but you never know). Anyway, when you switch enchants, the reforges change because it affects your haste (and sometimes other stats). That's why Mr. Robot looks at new reforge setups. That said, both reforge options are incredibly close (less that 0.1% apart), so either way is excellent.

    As for the meta gem, it isn't a bug. You put a stat weight of 0 in for crit. So Mr. Robot thinks the crit on that meta gem is worthless. Crit isn't a worthless stat (where did you get the stat weights - did SimC spit that out?). The fact that it changes with the enchant is actually because both meta gems score the same. And if you lock in your enchant, the score with each meta is exactly the same. And in those cases, Mr. Robot won't suggest a change if the score doesn't increase. Anyway, as long as you have anything above zero, Mr. Robot picks that meta gem every time. We don't hard code meta gems in on purpose, so that it can change with your stat weights
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    RE: Windsong vs Jade Spirit: we simulated all of the proc'd enchants and you can see the results here. If you use Jade Spirit, your score actually goes up However, that might change with 5.1 since the Jade Spirit mechanic to a real PPM as well (it will likely get even better, but you never know). Anyway, when you switch enchants, the reforges change because it affects your haste (and sometimes other stats). That's why Mr. Robot looks at new reforge setups. That said, both reforge options are incredibly close (less that 0.1% apart), so either way is excellent.
    Interesting about the meta gem - I put in 0 into crit because that is the quickest way for me to tell any reforger to reforge me out of any and all crit. I am not looking at AMR as a gearing helper, because well, no one else does that, so there's no point of comparison.

    As for the bit about Jade Spirit vs. Windsong - you need to look at actual logs for this. Things in SimC are how things in game *should* work, not how they *do* work. Essentially the bit about it being 2 real PPM simply isn't true in real world situations. SimC has the Patchwerk uptime for my Windsong as ~17% for each of procs - I suspect that it's doing Haste scaling differently than it's programmed or Blizzard is doing it differently than they released (lower the sim time from 450s to 240s, and proc chance is still < 20%, despite Bloodlust being far more dominant), when in practice it's on the order of 25% per proc and more than that in multi-target fights.

    Also, in that last sentence in the quote, I hope you're not saying that haste enchants/procs affect reforging. The average Haste value of a proc should not circumvent a Haste threshold.

  17. #17
    Rustjive, I see what you're saying about the enchants now, I'll dig through a few logs and check it out. Makes sense.

    Re my last sentence: nope, the procs are not calculated into meeting haste breakpoints. What I meant is that with the real PPM system, Haste affects the rate at which the enchant procs. So let's say you want to gem for an extra 320 haste. With Windsong, you get 320 Haste PLUS a tiny bit of extra goodness from extra Windsong procs. If you have Jade Spirit, you only get 320 Haste, since Haste doesn't affect how much it procs.

    Does that make sense? I can totally see how my last post was confusing.

    Also, this will change tomorrow with 5.1 - as more of the enchants (including Jade Spirit) and moving to the Real PPM system.
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