Thread: Destro maybe?

Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    Mechagnome MisterSoup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oxford, Ohio
    Posts
    609

    Destro maybe?

    I've been running SimCraft like a madman recently to help get my Warlock up to speed with things. Mostly, I've accepted that most Warlocks are playing Affliction (or Demonology for a select few fights) and that is the way the world works.

    While working on my PvP set, I had remembered to swap back to my PvE set before logging off to refresh my Armory, but I forgot to swap back to Aff from Destro. So when I ran another Simcraft on myself, I hadn't noticed at first that I was Destro for that particular sim. Lo and behold, it simmed about 6.4k DPS higher than I typically get with Affliction.

    So, interested and bored (since I love Destro anyways), I decided to gem, enchant and reforge according to how SimCraft was suggesting I should, and I started playing around with it in random-queue Heroics. I was pretty much impressed all across the board, so I took it into LFR Mogu'shan Vaults, and I was really really impressed. Destro was performing amazingly for me, and that's actually pretty exciting for me.

    So, coming here to tab through more resources, I find evidence of people like Zumzum who main as Destro and pump out AMAZING damage with it, and now I'm seriously considering making a full swap to raiding as Destro. But I do have questions!

    Like... What disadvantages does Destro have in raiding that I might not have considered?
    With Havoc, is it better to cleave off 3 incinerates, or is it ever passable to use a single CB, an Immolate/Conflagrate or anything else?
    Is there ever an advantage to using Rain of Fire for more ember generation?
    I understand that the secondary stat weights typically jump around like mad, but is there any reason to all the madess? And has anyone made sense of it enough to stick to a general rule-of-thumb?

    Any highly-skilled Destro players out there, I'd love to hear from you on these things!

  2. #2
    im interested in destro aswell..my lock isnt 90 yet but i tried it out today on my lock. i dont like the ember regen system. its almost as bad if not worst then the monk tigers eye brew system. except seems to rely on very heavy haste.
    my friend code...

    5241-1925-7760 name toasty

    up for battles ...after 10/18/2013

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterSoup View Post
    I've been running SimCraft like a madman recently to help get my Warlock up to speed with things. Mostly, I've accepted that most Warlocks are playing Affliction (or Demonology for a select few fights) and that is the way the world works.

    While working on my PvP set, I had remembered to swap back to my PvE set before logging off to refresh my Armory, but I forgot to swap back to Aff from Destro. So when I ran another Simcraft on myself, I hadn't noticed at first that I was Destro for that particular sim. Lo and behold, it simmed about 6.4k DPS higher than I typically get with Affliction.

    So, interested and bored (since I love Destro anyways), I decided to gem, enchant and reforge according to how SimCraft was suggesting I should, and I started playing around with it in random-queue Heroics. I was pretty much impressed all across the board, so I took it into LFR Mogu'shan Vaults, and I was really really impressed. Destro was performing amazingly for me, and that's actually pretty exciting for me.

    So, coming here to tab through more resources, I find evidence of people like Zumzum who main as Destro and pump out AMAZING damage with it, and now I'm seriously considering making a full swap to raiding as Destro. But I do have questions!

    Like... What disadvantages does Destro have in raiding that I might not have considered?
    With Havoc, is it better to cleave off 3 incinerates, or is it ever passable to use a single CB, an Immolate/Conflagrate or anything else?
    Is there ever an advantage to using Rain of Fire for more ember generation?
    I understand that the secondary stat weights typically jump around like mad, but is there any reason to all the madess? And has anyone made sense of it enough to stick to a general rule-of-thumb?

    Any highly-skilled Destro players out there, I'd love to hear from you on these things!
    A lot of this information is easily available in the sticky up top.


    Disadvantages:
    Low single-target damage
    Comparable cleave to other specs
    Comparable but lower AoE to other specs

    Havoc:
    Never cast anything but a CB or as many Shadowburns as you can get off. You can cleave shadowburns from a mob under 20% to a mob over 20% using havoc, and shadowburn only costs 1 ember.

    RoF is a dps gain on 2 targets that both have immo. More targets = more damage and more generation

    The general rule of thumb is two-fold.
    1) Pure Single Target: GoSup + Observer and Haste>mastery>=crit
    2) Any cleave at all: GoSac and Mastery>=crit > haste

  4. #4
    My experience so far is that Destro dps is much more consistent than affli as there is no ramp up and it takes less keys / macro to perform well. I can understand that high end players would prefer Affli as it has much more potencial in the hands of a really skilled / overgeared / high fps PC owner. But for the rest of us, destro is best imo.

    As said above, cleave with CB or Shadowburn. Good luck and happy fires !

  5. #5
    Mechagnome MisterSoup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oxford, Ohio
    Posts
    609
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    A lot of this information is easily available in the sticky up top.


    Disadvantages:
    Low single-target damage
    Comparable cleave to other specs
    Comparable but lower AoE to other specs

    Havoc:
    Never cast anything but a CB or as many Shadowburns as you can get off. You can cleave shadowburns from a mob under 20% to a mob over 20% using havoc, and shadowburn only costs 1 ember.

    RoF is a dps gain on 2 targets that both have immo. More targets = more damage and more generation

    The general rule of thumb is two-fold.
    1) Pure Single Target: GoSup + Observer and Haste>mastery>=crit
    2) Any cleave at all: GoSac and Mastery>=crit > haste
    I know what the Destro sticky thread "says" is accurate, but none of it actually seems to be in practice. Which is why I wanted to hear from Destro players, and not necessary players who "think" they know how Destro works.

    Zumzum, for instance, seems to use Int>Mastery>Crit>Haste as his gearing direction for most (if not all) situations, and he absolutely wrecks all of the other warlocks in his guild. His parses often rank top in the world for Warlocks in general, and typically top for Destro overall. So obviously there's a little more to it than what Evrelia "thinks" he knows about it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterSoup View Post
    he absolutely wrecks all of the other warlocks in his guild
    People really need to give Meegosh more credit...

  7. #7
    Keyboard Turner Destrowrath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Morehead city
    Posts
    7
    I recently just switched to affliction from destruction. Affliction is a far better sustained spec. It also means you do not need to be hit capped as a affliction lock. Meaning you will be able to gem and reforge into extra stats that support you. For pvp i play destro and i do amazing dmg and melt faces with destro so play it there!

  8. #8
    Mechagnome MisterSoup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oxford, Ohio
    Posts
    609
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    People really need to give Meegosh more credit...
    Meegosh is really good, but he's never really on top. Just a fact

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterSoup View Post
    Meegosh is really good, but he's never really on top. Just a fact
    Basically, you're wrong. Zumzum ends up on top a lot, but everyone's perception of him is skewed by the fact that he is the clearly the foremost Destruction Warlock and Meegosh is 'merely' an amazing Demonology Warlock. There are plenty of fights where Meegosh has out DPS-ed Zumzum in terms of raw numbers, but Zumzum still ends up with a #1 Destro ranking because no one else plays that spec and Meegosh has to settle for 5th or whatever.

    Also, you should really read through the Destruction *thread*, not just Evrelia's first post.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome MisterSoup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oxford, Ohio
    Posts
    609
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    Basically, you're wrong. Zumzum ends up on top a lot, but everyone's perception of him is skewed by the fact that he is the clearly the foremost Destruction Warlock and Meegosh is 'merely' an amazing Demonology Warlock. There are plenty of fights where Meegosh has out DPS-ed Zumzum in terms of raw numbers, but Zumzum still ends up with a #1 Destro ranking because no one else plays that spec and Meegosh has to settle for 5th or whatever.

    Also, you should really read through the Destruction *thread*, not just Evrelia's first post.
    I did, and this thread isn't about fanboyism or anything like that. This is a Destro thread, and evidence from players high up on WoL and things that SimCraft has been showing me are contradictory to what every "resource" on the subject are telling me. Just looking for answers, yo.

  11. #11
    Blademaster adidas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Mile High City
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by sac View Post
    im interested in destro aswell..my lock isnt 90 yet but i tried it out today on my lock. i dont like the ember regen system. its almost as bad if not worst then the monk tigers eye brew system. except seems to rely on very heavy haste.
    Your Ember regen rate is gonna rely on your Crit rating. More Crits, the more embers!

  12. #12
    IMHO, the "drawbacks" of destruction are the encounters where there dying mechanics don't happen :
    - garajal : totems don't really die so they don't provide embers back
    - elegon : energy charges and pillard don't die either
    - garalon : legs don't die either
    - un'sok : amber blobs don't die (last time i checked) and hopefuly your friend don't die either :-

    There's surely more, or i might have made mistakes in the listing above.

    Anyway, that doesn't mean you can't do great in destro on those fights, that listing solely means you'll be annoyed on those encounters.

    Also, please note that the same problem happen with affliction, because a mob that doesn't "die" is not providing shards refund.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    748
    Quote Originally Posted by nipil View Post
    IMHO, the "drawbacks" of destruction are the encounters where there dying mechanics don't happen :
    - garajal : totems don't really die so they don't provide embers back
    - elegon : energy charges and pillard don't die either
    - garalon : legs don't die either
    - un'sok : amber blobs don't die (last time i checked) and hopefuly your friend don't die either :-

    There's surely more, or i might have made mistakes in the listing above.

    Anyway, that doesn't mean you can't do great in destro on those fights, that listing solely means you'll be annoyed on those encounters.

    Also, please note that the same problem happen with affliction, because a mob that doesn't "die" is not providing shards refund.
    Valid points, but you can replace "embers" with Soul Shards and make the same argument for affliction.
    I suppose only Demo doesn't miss out on resource generation from these types of fights.
    A living Warlock = a dead everyone else

  14. #14
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    UK of Earth World & Northern Fat Land
    Posts
    2,418
    Practice your Havoc usage (as others have said, try and only use with CB/SB).

    I have not raided too much in MoP as of yet, but I am still 'competitive' - i.e. not he lowest dps and not dying to stupid crap :P

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    Valid points, but you can replace "embers" with Soul Shards and make the same argument for affliction.
    I suppose only Demo doesn't miss out on resource generation from these types of fights.
    Pretty sure Demo gets Fury for every kill, so they miss out too.
    Your soul shall be mine! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Pretty sure Demo gets Fury for every kill, so they miss out too.
    Don't believe so. They do get their execute (molten core buff 100% uptime) earlier at 25% than everyone else.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Don't believe so. They do get their execute (molten core buff 100% uptime) earlier at 25% than everyone else.
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=104315

    Got it from here, read that list last week when I was getting back in to playing Demo seriously, and I just checked it in game, you get 100 Fury for landing the killing blow. My guess is it's hard to notice cause you need to have the killing blow. So with multiple people whacking at something chances decline that you're the one getting a killing blow, but still. With no killing blow to be gotten there is also no resource gain, however slim the chance was.
    Your soul shall be mine! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  18. #18
    Mechagnome MisterSoup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oxford, Ohio
    Posts
    609
    It looks like Destro is getting some PvE buffs tomorrow in the way of increased ember generation. Might this close the gap between it and Affliction/Demo enough to consider it heavily?

  19. #19
    Field Marshal Camnorick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    67
    Destro is very nice for Heroic Spiritbinder. If you go in the totem with mammoths (Rain of fire,Fireandbrimstone Inc and immo, snipe low adds with shadowburn) you will always come out with full embers and start hitting the boss with procs up for over 830k or more with chaosbolts.
    The destro sticky is very wrong on destro (and to be honest all the specs, its outdated for the last 3months). Every sim I run, Mastery than crit than haste. but in general its not much more than 2-3k on the sims. I run reforged aff and still parse in the top 10 in Heroic fights.
    Aff is the overpowered spec of the tier, it will be nerf before Destro gets buffed. Destro is still better than most of the range specs, but you will have a hard time to convince a raidleader to allow you to give up the 14k dps destro gives up to aff. If your're a good warlock, You doing you're best with Destro will prob not beat B grade aff. Not saying its impossible.
    Love my guildies, but where are my minions.

  20. #20
    how much haste and crit should i have if i roll with goSup?
    im currently sitting on 12.48crit. dunno if i should sacrifice more mastery.

    and with the destro buffs, is it posible to use RoF on a single target and not be a dps loss?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •