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  1. #1

    [BALANCE] Maximizing DPS on Garalon failed

    Hi,

    My group started 1 week ago with Garalon for the first time and yesterday for the 2nd time. We never killed him because we are getting to learn the mechanics and tacts. Our big problem is the DPS.
    And I find myself very low qua DPS. Maybe some people can help me to maximizing my DPS. I do know I can do a lot more, but I don't know how to get better.
    This is the log from yesterday.

    Thank you very much!

  2. #2
    Honestly your dps isn't that bad, your weak points uptime is above 50% which isn't too bad.

    Your lock is failing pretty hard at maintaining weak points though. Really the only thing you guys could be doing is doing a better job of standing in the circles around the legs.

    It's not exactly a quick fight, how close was Garalon to dieing on your 7 minute attempt?
    Last edited by earthwormjim; 2012-11-26 at 01:29 PM.

  3. #3
    22%. Still too much, isn't it?

  4. #4
    You have to find a perfect balance between running for weakpoint & doing dps, we generally have melee running in weakpoints and ranged just standing still & multidotting, i think your problem lies more with your warlock not multidotting enough & your warrior not cleaving enough, our warriors/rogues do 100k on that boss & our lock around 80k


    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7819&e=8260

    If you go to "Damage by actor" you can tell your lock & warrior are not doing enough dps on him by multidot / cleave, also your hunter is not doing much dps on his body
    Last edited by lootinc; 2012-11-26 at 01:42 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Aoshi View Post
    22%. Still too much, isn't it?
    That's pretty far off. To give you an idea of where Weak Points up time should be, the ranged in my guild usually have 60-70% up time. Your mage is doing a pretty job with this.

    The melee in my group usually have 70-80% weak points up time. Your warrior is massively failing at this, he only has 55% up time, which is completely inexcusable for a melee. They should have no issue keeping up with a slow moving target. Plus it seems like he's hardly cleaving onto Garalon.

    Your warrior and warlock are holding you back.

  6. #6
    Are you all really sure i'm doing good with my dps? I think it's really possible to get higher damage done/dps. Or am I really wrong?

  7. #7
    The Patient
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    If you think you can do more, it means you can, and you should not really ask

  8. #8
    That's true
    But I really to know how then. Do I need often stand in the circle?

  9. #9
    1. Go with 2 healers instead of 3
    2. Tell your tanks to equip dps gear or even go dps
    3. Yell at dps to stop playing badly

    Do any or all of the above

  10. #10
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    That's pretty far off. To give you an idea of where Weak Points up time should be, the ranged in my guild usually have 60-70% up time. Your mage is doing a pretty job with this.

    The melee in my group usually have 70-80% weak points up time. Your warrior is massively failing at this, he only has 55% up time, which is completely inexcusable for a melee. They should have no issue keeping up with a slow moving target. Plus it seems like he's hardly cleaving onto Garalon.

    Your warrior and warlock are holding you back.
    Maybe it's different scaling in 10man, but going for weak points was trolling our 25man for quite awhile, multi-dot can just keep dots on all legs and peen the boss, stepping into weak point circles where it's convenient. As long as the legs die before new legs spawn, there's no rush to kill them.

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  11. #11
    Blademaster
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    Another thing is you dot uptime, try to get it higher. You are around 75-80% which is a bit low imo. It should be over 90 at least.

    And garalon is all about raid dps, not personal. Like some people have pointed out. Let the cleavers cleave and the rest should just nuke the boss(as long as the legs dies in time) If you kill them to fast and have to wait, thats wasted dps that could have been on the boss instead.

  12. #12
    Did this on 10m last thursday, and we killed it in about 6mins, and looking at our log to yours, our melee were do massively higher. I think you doing decent dps, could squeeze out abit more, but thats not going to equal 22%.
    I suggest you go with 1 tank, with a pala soaking the cleave. In addition you should get ur melees to have higher weak point uptime and more cleave.
    Also how many stacks are you going to with the debuff. We went to 20 stacks with 4 kiters (2 ranged and 2 healers) and with 3 healers (pala soaked cleave) this was easy to heal. IF your healers can keep up with the higher stacks then you will have fewer crushes (fewer stuns) which will mean more dps.

  13. #13
    We run 2 melee, rogue and feral druid. We lust at the start and burn all legs to slow him as quickly as possible. We don't have our range step into the weak spots at all. They focus the body and multi dot legs when it's convenient to do so, they don't spend any time running around wasting dps trying to get into weak spots. Our melee simply take care of the legs (with help from our soakers if they're in front). This allows range to focus their dps on Garalon with little movement and extra dots sometimes. It also allows melee higher uptime on legs which means their dps will be higher and more effective, especially the rogue who is carrying over cleave damage to the body 100% of the time. As long as the leg isn't staying up longer than it takes for a new one to spawn you're fine just leaving it to melee and some dots.
    Having range run into the weak points to kill the legs lowers dps for everyone and is probably going to make the fight go slower than it needs to.

    With that being said your warrior really needs to pick it up. I mainly looked at your two longest attempts and I assume his weak points uptime on some of those attempts is pretty low because the legs are being killed by everyone (too fast), but hes still got lower time than some of your range dps which is bad. This fight is melee heaven, they shine so much on this fight especially if they can cleave. I haven't played fury in a long, long time so I'm not 100% sure to the specifics of it anymore, but if he can do a little more cleaving he should try to (again not sure how possible it is as I haven't played it in forever and don't know what rage generation/ability cost is like). Your lock is also extremely low and not having to run around to legs will probably help his dps out some, but he really needs to pick it up as well.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    Maybe it's different scaling in 10man, but going for weak points was trolling our 25man for quite awhile, multi-dot can just keep dots on all legs and peen the boss, stepping into weak point circles where it's convenient. As long as the legs die before new legs spawn, there's no rush to kill them.
    It's the same for 10m. As long as a leg dies before the next one spawns, WP uptime is irrelevant to raid success. It's only relevant from a personal DPS standpoint, and may actually hurt you if you're taking cleave uptime away from those who can.

    From my perspective, your dps actually seem to be ok if you're one of the kiters, if you're not then you could probably pick it up a bit. Given your raid comp, there probably are better choices to kite than you tho.

  15. #15
    OP: regarding your own dps, I see a few things:

    1. You didn't use CA as part of your opener (with INC+NV), nut sure why. You did use it right on the 2nd time you pop'd your cds, but you forgot (possibly?) on the first one (start of fight).
    2. You didn't use a second pot, on a tight fight like that these little things help a lot (specially if everyone is doing that);
    3. You used tranq - lowers you overall dps
    4. You seem to be going for haste breakpoint, afaik crit is better for a multi-dotting fight.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by land View Post
    OP: regarding your own dps, I see a few things:

    1. You didn't use CA as part of your opener (with INC+NV), nut sure why. You did use it right on the 2nd time you pop'd your cds, but you forgot (possibly?) on the first one (start of fight).
    2. You didn't use a second pot, on a tight fight like that these little things help a lot (specially if everyone is doing that);
    3. You used tranq - lowers you overall dps
    4. You seem to be going for haste breakpoint, afaik crit is better for a multi-dotting fight.
    1. indeed, i forgot to use it.
    2. Should indeed to learn use 2nd pot.
    3. that's true, but doesn't make that a lot low
    4. So, for Garalon, I should reforge everyting to Crit after spellhit at 15%?

  17. #17
    Apart from the simple things like proper cd usage, pot usage, etc. looking at your numbers for the longest fight of 7:20, I see some strange occurrences when comparing to my most recent log I did last night.

    I will post one of my logs from my most recent Garalon kill here in case you want something to compare to. Mine ranked around 130 and I kited pheromones for a combined 64 seconds in which my dps was significantly lowered. (not sure if you are kiting which will change the numbers I will be mentioning below).
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-rt...?s=7810&e=8172

    Looking at what comprised your damage, your Starfire seems absurdly low. Granted our gear differences and thus differences in output, I'm seeing you only casted Starfire 31 times whereas I casted Starfire 40 times and our fight lasted only 6:01 with me kiting for a minute of that and thus only casting starfire occasionally during that time. Your Starfall did more damage than your Starfire, which is also peculiar especially because you do not have the 2-piece set bonus. Throughout the fight our Wrath and Starsurge cast numbers are roughly the same (taking into account length of time difference) so the only thing that sticks out is Starfire use and why you are casting it so infrequently. Did you spend a long time in one eclipse or the other? I would focus on getting through your rotation in the same way as you would any other fight if you did not do that previously. Fights like Garalon would be approached much differently back with Cata rules and the ability to stay in Solar with 2 buffed dots, but as both eclipses only grant one buffed dot, it is very important to still go back and forth as much as you can to take advantage of Nature's Grace haste buff from each eclipse.

    It was mentioned previously but I agree dot uptime would be another point of focus and working on getting those up would yield much more damage. Crit yields extra starsurge procs, but only when the dots are ticking. So the more you have dots ticking, the more chances at starsurge procs you have, and a fight like Garalon where there are usually always 2 things to dot, sometimes 3 or more depending on how fast your group kills legs, anything under 90% uptime on dots means you aren't doing enough.

    Another tip, not sure if you are doing this already, but definitely use heroism at the beginning. Not only is that the best uptime of procs and everyone has all their cooldowns for added dps, but you can quickly burn off all his legs and then only focus on one or at most two legs for the rest of the fight. Also make sure you are dotting the boss and keeping dots on him at all times, not just damaging the legs.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    Maybe it's different scaling in 10man, but going for weak points was trolling our 25man for quite awhile, multi-dot can just keep dots on all legs and peen the boss, stepping into weak point circles where it's convenient. As long as the legs die before new legs spawn, there's no rush to kill them.
    It's a 100% damage buff while you're in it, he moves quite slow as the fight progresses too. You would have to have worse than 50% of your normal up time for the legs to troll you. My guild is 25m.

    You just have to position yourself well so you can stay in the circle as long as possible. As a ranged I would make full use of the back legs, and just multi dot the front legs.

  19. #19
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthwormjim View Post
    It's a 100% damage buff while you're in it, he moves quite slow as the fight progresses too. You would have to have worse than 50% of your normal up time for the legs to troll you. My guild is 25m.

    You just have to position yourself well so you can stay in the circle as long as possible. As a ranged I would make full use of the back legs, and just multi dot the front legs.
    The problem is you end up burning Nature's Grace, etc, while you're spending time running to a leg. Unless the leg is very easy and quickly achievable, that's a lot of downtime.

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  20. #20
    Thank you very much for the tips and info.

    But I still have a question:
    For the fight in Garalon, i need reforge everthing to crit after 15% spellhit? Or do I hold my hastebreakpoint?

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