Monks that OP?

[Deleted]

More HPS on individual healers means you can bring less healers, or that your off-healers don't have to give up as much dps to support the healers, etc., which makes killing them bosses easier for obvious reasons.

You may as well be saying that dps isn't a competition, and that as long as the boss dies you did fine... which is true on a lot of fights, too... and on a lot of fights healing is also very much "a competition", as you phrase it, even if I would phrase it as a competition against the damage dealt out by the encounter, rather than against your fellow healers as I get the feeling you're implying.

Being high on the healing meters is not as important as being high on the dps meters is... Healing is more about casting the right heal at the right time on the right person, than it is to max your hps on recount. Maxing your dps on recount however, in most cases leads to quicker deaths of bosses. Maybe this clarifies things a bit... And also: running with less healers will by default mean their hps will be higher because there will be more to heal for them. Healing is a zero sum game.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 04:46 PM ----------

I would say on 10 man the gap a is a lot bigger from experience. Furthermore on 25man the gap between shamans and monks is a lot smaller since shamans don't do well in the 10man environment

The logs don't lie. Your personal experience probably means you are either underperforming or the other healers are overperforming.

I don't see the logic in your last remark though. The gap on 25 man between shaman and monks is a lot smaller (than what? than what the logs show? O.o) since shaman don't do well in 10 man? What has not doing well in 10 man have to do with the 25 man logs?

[JuicedawgYO]

Why am I not surprised someone with the forum name "JuicedawgYO" was the only one who suggested this.

And yes, our monk is a very good player, but so am I and so are our other healers.
It's pretty obvious it's an OP thing and not a skill issue.

Sorry but I can't see the connection between my username and my suggestion, what is wrong with my username and why so offensive all of a sudden? Do you think Shammyspice is a more creative/better/more-cool-kid name? Keep telling yourself that it is not a skill issue, sure that will help you out ;-)
Our resto shaman is keeping up just fine with other healer specs (25man), but he also happens to be very very good so yeah...

[Deleted]

This weeks Garalon progressions attempts I was battling with our monk healer (both hovering at the 62-66k hps mark). Didn't get the kill yet, got fucking Berserked at 7-9% :S But that's more of a strat thing than healing issue.. We were both at ~30-35% mana when Berserk timer came and killed us. And were in 10man. But I'm always beating our resto druid in healing/hps/under him in overhealing and have better mana control than him. Anyone else noticed that?

[Shammyspice]

Sorry but I can't see the connection between my username and my suggestion, what is wrong with my username and why so offensive all of a sudden? Do you think Shammyspice is a more creative/better/more-cool-kid name? Keep telling yourself that it is not a skill issue, sure that will help you out ;-)
Our resto shaman is keeping up just fine with other healer specs (25man), but he also happens to be very very good so yeah...

You can't compare 10/25 man hps. Obviously more hps goes out in 25 mans because there's more HP to heal up & much more opportunity to get use out of healing rain, which does the majority of our aoe healing. 10 man healing forces resto shams to use more direct healing, which isn't exactly our strong suit(hps wise). I'll go into an LFR and do 70-100k hps easy and there's not even as much damage going out in LFR as there is on normal 25, which proves there's much more potential for higher hps in a 25 man environment than in a 10 man.

And you obviously didn't read everything considering I'm not having any issues with any other healing class except for monks atm...which makes sense because any new class/race is probably going to be OP for a while when they first become available. And about 98% of the rest of the people in this thread agree.

[Tinsoul]

Hehe. Check out the raidbots for Garalon. Sick.

[shammypie]

Oh I don't care about "being better" but I've raided in environments where if you weren't in step with other healers, you weren't doing certain things correctly. Example: I raided with a really hardcore 25 man group towards the very end of Cata and I was below the other r sham, not by much, but I got "talked to" cause riptide wasn't at 100% every single fight(mind you we were on farm content too), even if it was around 95% that wasn't good enough D: I ended up stopping raiding with them 'cause I had already been through being more or less "perfect" for progression and I don't think needing to be "perfect" for farm content is necessary if bosses are being killed within 2-4 minutes. It was never fun to raid 'cause I was constantly worrying about having perfect uptimes on everything

So I guess 'cause of that experience, if I see a major hps difference, I tend to think it's something I'm not doing or could do better.

But no, progression isn't really an issue. Most trouble we've had so far was Garalon, but it was more of a strat issue than a healing issue. Once we sorted out a strat that worked for us, we got it down.

if you are within 10% of each other thats rng not a healing issue. if its like a gap of 25% or more then it is an issue. although there are exceptions with very exceptional players. If thats the case it is helpful to analyze what they do to get up to their level.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 04:54 PM ----------

Being high on the healing meters is not as important as being high on the dps meters is... Healing is more about casting the right heal at the right time on the right person, than it is to max your hps on recount. Maxing your dps on recount however, in most cases leads to quicker deaths of bosses. Maybe this clarifies things a bit... And also: running with less healers will by default mean their hps will be higher because there will be more to heal for them. Healing is a zero sum game.


Healing is only a zero sum game in that all damage done must be healed. Depending on DPS and raid awareness the amount of Damage going out in a fight will not be the same even if the kill timers are the same.

Furthermore DPS can be considered a zero sum game as well but in fact varies depending on how fast you push the mechanics



---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 04:46 PM ----------



The logs don't lie. Your personal experience probably means you are either underperforming or the other healers are overperforming.

I don't see the logic in your last remark though. The gap on 25 man between shaman and monks is a lot smaller (than what? than what the logs show? O.o) since shaman don't do well in 10 man? What has not doing well in 10 man have to do with the 25 man logs?

actually a lot of the top world logs are lies. They come from non standard kills with exceptional players and a bunch of oh noes going on. Furthermore it is very hard to compare overall to expected values because every healer will preform differently with a different healer comp. Its like saying you will lose money playing the Stock market because on average everyone loses X amount.

The reason i said there is a bigger gap is because i run with a lot of exceptional healers, myself included. When we switch it down for 10 man for whatever reason the gap between hps is a lot bigger in 10 mans and is very fight dependant. Meanwhile in 25 man the hps averages out more and is a lot more. Shamans not doing well in 10 mans is the driving factor in this. A good monk healer will scale linearly between 10 and 25, a good shaman will scale exponentially between 10 and 25man.

[pouca]

healing meters are not as important as dps meters but they matters, a little...
This is a 25 normal modes point of view, we are a little late...

I noticed that our performance depends of several factors.

- Raid comp, monks are OP, several good raid CDs and our CDs overheal more, etc.

- Fights with low health raid, our mastery is so powerfull and we have so much of it, we have also so many intelligent heals and so many powerfull CDs, that we out-perform every body.
- On more standard fights we are behind, we get far behind if we don't time our CDs perfectly

- Our CDs do a lot for our performance, final rush with lot of damage makes us to shine during some encounters (or at least be on par).

a good strategy to have a good healing meter is to be in charge of tank heal and snip raid heal when needed

[Deleted]

Pvelol. Whenever I see someone complaining about a class being OP at slaying dragons, I feel like kicking a kitten.

[asharia]

you can't just bring up a HPS meter and say 'look, monks are better'

there's sooooo much more to it than that.

[Deleted]

if you are within 10% of each other thats rng not a healing issue. if its like a gap of 25% or more then it is an issue. although there are exceptions with very exceptional players. If thats the case it is helpful to analyze what they do to get up to their level.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 04:54 PM ----------





actually a lot of the top world logs are lies. They come from non standard kills with exceptional players and a bunch of oh noes going on. Furthermore it is very hard to compare overall to expected values because every healer will preform differently with a different healer comp. Its like saying you will lose money playing the Stock market because on average everyone loses X amount.

The reason i said there is a bigger gap is because i run with a lot of exceptional healers, myself included. When we switch it down for 10 man for whatever reason the gap between hps is a lot bigger in 10 mans and is very fight dependant. Meanwhile in 25 man the hps averages out more and is a lot more. Shamans not doing well in 10 mans is the driving factor in this. A good monk healer will scale linearly between 10 and 25, a good shaman will scale exponentially between 10 and 25man.

I'm talking about ALL parses, not just top first kill logs. They even out so much that it takes away goofy tactics or strange setups. Switching between 10's and 25's means you need to change the way you heal, especially as shaman. The gap is probably so big because someone is not doing as good as in 25's.

My comment that "Healing is more about casting the right heal at the right time on the right person, than it is to max your hps on recount." still stands though.