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  1. #81
    I am Murloc! Tomatketchup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackmoves View Post
    Well thats part of the process, the other parties need to get in there and take control of the issue rather then leave it up to SD to run their show. Once thats done they can selfdestruct and none but a few will miss them. Some adjustment to the number of asylum seekers we accept wouldn't hurt, but the big problem we got to deal with is integration, one of the biggest problems is the fact that immigrants tend to cluster up in the same municipals, it doesn't matter if all of the municipals have signed a deal to accept refugees and immigrants when all but a few move to already "over crowded" areas after they've been placed somewhere.

    I mean I understand why they do it, it's the same way with all expats or people that move to other nations, you can go to any city in the world and you will have expat communities, you could go to Silicon Valley and you would find that there is a very active Swedish expat community there, go to London and you get the same thing there, etc etc. Hanging out with your "own" gives a sense of security and familiarity, not to mention that you can learn from those who have lived there longer. But it doesn't help anyone much as far as integration goes, they would be better off living in less immigrant crowded areas.

    What we really need to do is to break some of the bad habits, we need to get employers to care less about origin and we need more immigrants to activly look for work, statistically work and education are the best ways to integrate someone into the sociaty, most of our educated immigrants are contributing to sociaty. There is great human and financial capital in immigration, as long as we can get them employed, a 1% increase in employment among our immigrants would net sweden 2,5 billion SEK/year. If we could get the same employment levels among foreign born as we got in people born in Sweden it would net us 17-27 billion SEK/year, thats a wild dream atm though, but it shows the potential it has. All economists(Jan Ekberg for example) that has done the most research on the subject agree on this, but as it is right now, it's a net loss for Sweden because unemployment is too high. Immigration back in the 60s and 70s was a big boost to our economy, we need to get back to that.

    So immigration as such is not a negative thing for Sweden, but we fail to take advantage of the potential of immigration.
    Agree 100%. Gotta love how ironic it is that the people who praises Sweden the most actually indirectly hurts Sweden by focusing on throwing out muslims. But yeah, send the muslims to northern Sweden and let them work with the wood industry, would love to see a city filled with Arabs, Swedes and Finns.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Baiyn View Post
    That's a good point and I think the kind of reform you suggest would be very sensible.
    Well, I've no idea what these "guidelines" would be :P. Maybe just ring off the internet and determine it as different from the outdoor public domain. So some guy tweeting rubbish is not the same as someone screaming it in the streets and organizing an angry rabble...

  3. #83
    Man, this is insane. Does anyone think this Cultural Marxism? Why aren't these men and women allowed to express themselves as they wish without being called a bigot or privileged? Sure, nobody should be discriminated against and it shouldn't be encouraged, but stuff like this seems....inhuman. It doesn't matter which country these sorts of things take place in, as the principles behind these policies ought to be attacked. Free expression is being silenced under the guise of egalitarianism.
    I don't see a problem with these sorts of public policies. If they are going door to door to private homes, and enforcing them, however, that's when this becomes a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin
    Why? Because fuck you, that's why.

    Every time you have a question that begins with "Why?" that is about what other people prefer to do with their own goddamn time, come back here, and reread the first row of this post. That will ALWAYS be the answer to your question. Have a nice day.

  4. #84
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    Being told you are civilised or tolerant by one's government does not necessarily mean it's true.

    The UK government tells me I live in a multicultural society devoid of racism...

    Live and let live, creating laws to force a point is unlikely to work (don't be racist, don't drink alcohol, etc).

    Shut down the internet and allow cultures to focus inwards for a generation then switch it back on.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Author of that article is one sneaky bastard. You might want to check his sources before you comment.


    It has been ruled in one municipality in northern Sweden that women can swim topless - as long as noone takes offence to it.
    ""We're used to naked people. Nobody cares," Per-Erik Ulander told local paper Dagbladet, adding that women could still be asked to cover up if other bathers take offence."

    And there is no law that requires pools to allow women to bath bare breasted. The men to cover their nipples part was a comparison statement made by an organization for bare breasted swimming - with 40 members.
    "The group faced a setback in November after the Swedish sexual equality ombudsman (Jämo) ruled that it was not discriminatory for women to be banned from bare-breasted bathing. Karlsson rejected the ombudsman's conclusions:

    "The only sensible thing is to have the same rule for men as for women. If women can't be without a top, then men shouldn't get away with it either," she said."



    http://www.thelocal.se/29338/20100930/
    There was a case where a few pregnant women didn't get sick benefits despite being in their late month pregnancy's, despite...
    "Among other things, the women suffered from back aches, inguinal hernias, fatigue, sleeping problems, and pelvic arthropathy, all of which diminished their capacity to perform their jobs."
    Now, you can argue whether pregnant women should get sick benefits or not, but it was never stated that it was considered an illness in the article he quoted at all.


    It's an incredibly small group that noone really cares about. Ask any Swede and at most the "activists" will be nothing more than hipsters.

    Also, the author of the article has some half-demeaning phrases.

    Not sure if light-hearted humor or a sarcastic remark.

    Why not? He doesn't motivate why it has to be like that.

    Aaaaand same here. He doesn't explain why he thinks that it's harming society.

    Not to mention that while the rape statistics are unfortunate, he doesn't link any source to the domestic violence statistics.

    This guy should stick to writing about the financial market.
    How dare you try to inject fact and logic into yet another women bashing men are so oppressed thread. There's no place for that here so shoo!!!

  6. #86
    Doesn't look that unreasonable, and looks relatively gender neutral as opposed to anti-gender. The kid is taking a doll's temperature; he could be playing doctor.

  7. #87
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    Sweden is a ridiculous country. There's nothing to discuss on that matter, it's just a fact. (This comes from a born and raised Swede)

    We are unable to deal with real matters like, Economy/Immigration politics/Equality etc, because of labelism.
    We are not allowed to have opinions or views that's not accepted by media, yes you read that right, BY THE MEDIA!
    If you dare have an opinion that is not accepted by the mainstream media you'll be labeled accordingly.

    Have an opinion on our foreign policy? Well, you're a racist.
    Have an opinion on equality? You'll get called chauvinist pig.
    Have an opinion on taxes? You're clearly a freeloader.

    Whatever niche you find yourself in after Media has judged you, the people will agree. Why? Because they fear to be labeled as well.
    Let's call it "Jantelagen" or as you perhaps know it, The law of Jante. It's basically an imaginary law forcing you to share the same opinion as the loudest members in our society, in this case Media and whatever frivolous political party they favor the most, this tends to be Socialdemokraterna or SAP for short (faaar far left).
    (The definition isn't the same as I described it, but it serves the same purpose)

    One should not forget that the media is also a victim of the Jante law and therefor forced to be politically correct as well.
    The fun part about this is that the media isn't actually the villain here, they are simply a tool for SAP, or more specifically, the deluded souls who runs it. SAP was once a respectable and very well established party(They still are very well established, unfortunately) in Sweden, but they have become corrupt and greedy and the people refuse to see it.

    SAP tells the media how to think and what to share-> Media tells the people how to think and what to vote for-> The people are afraid of labelism, so they only vote for what SAP think is politically correct and that just happens to be exactly the political stance Media has been forced into.
    And round it goes, self correcting and endlessly repeating system of oppression.

    This is why Sweden is what it is, and it's why you see scandalous, fucking retarded shit like what OP just showed us.
    If you ever have any question that starts with *But, why Sweden? Why did you do that?* go back to this post and read it once more.
    This explanation can be applied to every question you have about Sweden, it always leads back to what I just explained.

    Just to be clear, this isn't nation bashing. I'm a proud Swede and I love my country. I just hate the morons who runs it.
    Also, this isn't a rant either, it's just an explanation on how this and many other countries truly work.
    Last edited by Deleted; 2012-11-27 at 09:13 PM.
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  8. #88
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainiothon View Post
    Well, I've no idea what these "guidelines" would be :P. Maybe just ring off the internet and determine it as different from the outdoor public domain. So some guy tweeting rubbish is not the same as someone screaming it in the streets and organizing an angry rabble...
    Yeah, it's something that would require a lot of careful consideration and a group of very switched-on, objective people deciding on the fine print of it. Think I'd personally see freedom of expression defined in British law as something similar to what is laid out in the First Amendment to the US Constitution. I'd rather free speech be absolute (I believe that judicial systems should deal with actions and leave words and thoughts alone), but making some exceptions for "fighting words" (inciting violence) as the amendment words it with such archaic charm, would be understandable, I suppose.

  9. #89
    I am Murloc! Tomatketchup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeavline View Post
    Sweden is a ridiculous country. There's nothing to discuss on that matter, it's just a fact. (This comes from a born and raised Swede)

    We are unable to deal with real matters like, Economy/Immigration politics/Equality etc, because of labelism.
    We are not allowed to have opinions or views that's not accepted by media, yes you read that right, BY THE MEDIA!
    If you dare have an opinion that is not accepted by the mainstream media you'll be labeled accordingly.

    Have an opinion on our foreign policy? Well, you're a racist.
    Have an opinion on equality? You'll get called chauvinist pig.
    Have an opinion on taxes? You're clearly a freeloader.

    Whatever niche you find yourself in after Media has judged you, the people will agree. Why? Because they fear to be labeled as well.
    Let's call it "Jantelagen" or as you perhaps know it, The law of Jante. It's basically an imaginary law forcing you to share the same opinion as the loudest members in our society, in this case Media and whatever frivolous political party they favor the most, this tends to be Socialdemokraterna or SAP for short (faaar far left).
    (The definition isn't the same as I described it, but it serves the same purpose)

    One should not forget that the media is also a victim of the Jante law and therefor forced to be politically correct as well.
    The fun part about this is that the media isn't actually the villain here, they are simply a tool for SAP, or more specifically, the deluded souls who runs it. SAP was once a respectable and very well established party(They still are very well established, unfortunately) in Sweden, but they have become corrupt and greedy and the people refuse to see it.

    SAP tells the media how to think and what to share-> Media tells the people how to think and what to vote for-> The people are afraid of labelism, so they only vote for what SAP think is politically correct and that just happens to be exactly the political stance Media has been forced into.
    And round it goes, self correcting and endlessly repeating system of oppression.

    This is why Sweden is what it is, and it's why you see scandalous, fucking retarded shit like what OP just showed us.
    If you ever have any question that starts with *But, why Sweden? Why did you do that?* go back to this post and read it once more.
    This explanation can be applied to every question you have about Sweden, it always leads back to what I just explained.

    Just to be clear, this isn't nation bashing. I'm a proud Swede and I love my country. I just hate the morons who runs it.
    Also, this isn't a rant either, it's just an explanation on how this and many other countries truly work.
    Jesus, where do you live? Even in Malmö, the most politically correct city in the country, I don't have any problems stating my opinion. Heck, I walk around with my cap with my Swedish flag on in public without anyone even giving me a stare.

    And frankly, not to sound like a complete douchebag, but I find it somewhat ironic that you say that Swedish media control our opinions and is making us all think alike, yet you seemingly believe that the article in the OP is absolutely correct about everything, even though it's so strawman it's not even funny.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Jesus, where do you live? Even in Malmö, the most politically correct city in the country, I don't have any problems stating my opinion. Heck, I walk around with my cap with my Swedish flag on in public without anyone even giving me a stare.

    And frankly, not to sound like a complete douchebag, but I find it somewhat ironic that you say that Swedish media control our opinions and is making us all think alike, yet you seemingly believe that the article in the OP is absolutely correct about everything, even though it's so strawman it's not even funny.
    No, media only convey what SAP (Socialdemokraternas Arbetarparti) think is politically correct. As I explained further into my post.
    And I don't fully agree with the article linked, but I do agree on the notion that Sweden has become really anal about political correctness, which I believe was the reason for this thread and the article that OP linked.

    Also, I live in Norrköping. It's a dump, and well-known for it.

    Edit: I'm having a hard time to believe that you (as a born and ethnic Swede?) is allowed to have a controversy opinion on immigration/well-fare or equality issues?
    Last edited by Deleted; 2012-11-27 at 10:16 PM.
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  11. #91
    I am Murloc! Tomatketchup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeavline View Post
    Norrköping.
    Nevermind. I share your sentiments, bro.

  12. #92
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeavline View Post
    Just to be clear, this isn't nation bashing. I'm a proud Swede and I love my country. I just hate the morons who runs it.
    Also, this isn't a rant either, it's just an explanation on how this and many other countries truly work.
    To be honest, whatever makes them moronic, I'd gladly vote for them either way seeing as they and those before them made Sweden one of the 3 most developed countries in the world.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    At least in the USA, we debunked the theory that women make 75% of what men do in another recent thread. However, I cannot speak for the country in the article.
    Debunked on a gaming forum, yet pay equality is still up for vote in the real world...shit, even the white house employees themselves make 25% more as a man
    Quote Originally Posted by kasath
    is anyone in this group under 18? my parole officer says I'm not allowed to play wow with anyone under 18

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    To be honest, whatever makes them moronic, I'd gladly vote for them either way seeing as they and those before them made Sweden one of the 3 most developed countries in the world.
    They did! But it's not the same admirable people behind the wheel anymore.
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  15. #95
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    My Wife being a Hair Stylist, would go broke if this was the case. Men are always the best clients takes 5-10 mins top for a hair cut and you can charge $10-15.00 but no way in hell can you do a Woman's hair for that price, unless of coarse they have a butch hair cut. So if you have to charge the same then the price will be the typical $25.00 for a woman's hair cut, and men simply wont pay that.

  16. #96
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeavline View Post
    They did! But it's not the same admirable people behind the wheel anymore.
    I haven't really noticed Sweden going downhill lately.

    Edit: Although the UN projections of Sweden's HDI are kind of curious (world ranking):

    2015: 25
    2020: 25
    2025: 37
    2030: 45 (Libya one place above it o.O)
    Last edited by Wikiy; 2012-11-27 at 11:18 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    There's probably some psychological BS that dictates if a kid is seen having fun with a toy it will sell better.
    I wonder if this also means that, because girls are posing with traditionally boy toys and boys are posing with traditionally girl toys, that it will give Toys'R'Us in Sweden the ability to cross gender lines a bit and get some girls and boys interested in toys they normally wouldn't consider.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    I haven't really noticed Sweden going downhill lately.

    Edit: Although the UN projections of Sweden's HDI are kind of curious (world ranking):

    2015: 25
    2020: 25
    2025: 37
    2030: 45 (Libya one place above it o.O)
    Could I bug you for the source on this? I don't doubt it, I'd just be interested at seeing what's expected across the board.

  19. #99
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    Uhm... Well, that article was definitely twisted out of proportion.

    The actual story behind this, and the mantra of the movement behind it, is actually kind of the opposite to the "boys will be girls" stuff being spouted on The Telegraph. The whole idea is that you shouldn't be shoehorned by society into strictly defined roles going all the way down to what toys you get to play with as a kid, depending on what's between your legs. If you want to follow a traditional role and be a timid housewife or a muscle-pumping man-man, you should be allowed to do that just as much as if you wish to deviate. But it should be your choice, not something society indoctrinates you with.

    Considering how much people seem to love "free expression" and despise the silencing thereof, I'm surprised you have a problem with this. Sounds like a load of hypocrity to me.
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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeavline View Post
    Edit: I'm having a hard time to believe that you (as a born and ethnic Swede?) is allowed to have a controversy opinion on immigration/well-fare or equality issues?
    I feel like I can speak my mind, but I would fully expect to have people disagree with me if I said something controversial. There is really no difference between Sweden and other countries as far as that goes. You will cause an uproar in all countries if you say something that goes against the norm. Look at the US and abortion for example, there was quite a few controversial statements from republicans about that, it caused a reaction naturally.

    Ended up at an after party once at Hagabion, place was packed of extreme leftwingers, didn't stop me from saying I'm a liberal, of course by their definition that meant I was a crazy neo liberal that needed to be converted rofl, I'm not a neo liberal, but it's the same shit to most of them, or at least the folks I ran into, I spent the rest of the night defending my stance on different issues, standing around me in a circle was around 10 ung vänster, R:are, etc folks. It wasn't much fun tbh lol! ... but if you allow yourself to be silienced it's pretty much your own problem. And then you are a victim to your own theory, you are affraid to get labeled by the people with whom you disagree.

    So what do you feel like you can't say?

    Btw most our big newspaper generally have a social liberal outlook, officially at least, there are few proper social democractic medias, Arbetaren(was that the name?) is/was one, dala kurriren is another I think. SVD, DN, GP etc are all social liberal, officially, you may disagree with that though.

    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    My Wife being a Hair Stylist, would go broke if this was the case. Men are always the best clients takes 5-10 mins top for a hair cut and you can charge $10-15.00 but no way in hell can you do a Woman's hair for that price, unless of coarse they have a butch hair cut. So if you have to charge the same then the price will be the typical $25.00 for a woman's hair cut, and men simply wont pay that.
    Prices range from 15-20 up to well over 100, of course for such an expensive trip to the hair stylist it includes more then a simple trimming!

    My gf pays over 100 for a long seating at her hair stylist. Also, lots of places simply get around this by charging different prices for long and short hair. :P
    Last edited by Jackmoves; 2012-11-27 at 11:42 PM.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

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