1. #1

    [WW] My DPS should be higher...

    Hey, so I'll be perfectly honest, I'm not very familiar with ww dps.
    I've been focusing more on perfecting healing (my raid role) and haven't really given WW much look aside from dailies up until now.
    I'm starting to get gear for my os and we've been doing challenge modes a lot lately, stormstout I'll be going dps on the last boss and want to make sure I'm pushing out as much as possible.
    I've been practicing my rotation and I'm not happy with the results. I ran a sim and it's saying I should be pulling around 56k, now I know to take sims with a grain of salt, but that's a huge difference from what I'm pulling to what it says I should be pulling.
    Here's a link to some logs that I from a 4 minute target dummy.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/

    Could you help me out here?

  2. #2
    I'm no theorycrafter, or a monk for that matter, but 21% miss rate on melee looks wrong to me. I can't tell caps from your armory because you're in MW atm, but never fearing asking the stupid question, are you hit /exp capped?

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Hanto's Avatar
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    Just looking over your buffs (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...hxk/details/1/) it's showing Tiger Power with only a 19% uptime? That should be damn near 100%, especially if you're attacking a single stationary target (as in it should never fall off). Your Tigerseye Brew (the buff portion of it) was only used three times and had a 3.4% uptime. I read somewhere that with decent gear you should be able to almost always keep it up: 4 stacks > use, 4 stacks > use.

    I'm no expert at looking at logs, but those two seem to stand out the most to me. For anyone else analyzing it, armory here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lenne/advanced

  4. #4
    Both of those seem to be very wrong, I had full 3 stacks of tiger palm for the duration of that, I did let it drop on accident during a channel of fists of fury but I put it back up immediately, so 19% uptime is very wrong.
    I am definitely hit capped as far as yellow hit goes, exp soft capped as well.

    Sorry bout the armory, forgot to mention it's in my sig.

    For the tigerseye brew I was waiting for a full 10 before using it, it usually lined up with energizing brew as well, I'll try with 4 > use.
    Idk whats going on with the logs but just from what you both pointed out something went wrong, I clearly remember keeping my 3 stacks up except once, idk why it's showing otherwise (I cried a little when I lost them during my channel)
    One sec, I'll log back in and redo the logs.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-26 at 02:01 PM ----------

    Hanto, just redid a parse and saw an immediate improvement (pretty big one actually) with using tigerseye brew at 4 or 5 instead of 10 stacks.
    This is great, but I'm still 5k off from sims
    However, the uptime in tiger power is still really low on WoL, I know I didn't let it drop during that either so I don't know whats going on there.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/

  5. #5
    Blademaster
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    You should go for your socket bonuses.

  6. #6
    Yeah, don't gem for flat agi. The fact that gems have double the secondary stats means gemming pure primary stats is mostly out the window for now. I know I'll probably get flak for this but try looking how this optimizes you for a starting point, its personal judgement as to how much of it to follow/ tweaking http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...utus/caillenne.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dkdk View Post
    Yeah, don't gem for flat agi. The fact that gems have double the secondary stats means gemming pure primary stats is mostly out the window for now. I know I'll probably get flak for this but try looking how this optimizes you for a starting point, its personal judgement as to how much of it to follow/ tweaking http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...utus/caillenne.
    Red: Agility
    Yellow: Agility + Haste
    Blue: Agility + Hit

    That's the best way to go right now.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JadleHF View Post
    Red: Agility
    Yellow: Agility + Haste
    Blue: Agility + Hit

    That's the best way to go right now.
    Adding to this, dont be afraid to use a hit gem in blue sockets even if youre already at the cap. You can then use the opportunity to reforge some of the hit on your gear into haste for a similar benefit to using an agi/haste gem while also snagging the socket bonus.
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  9. #9
    Monk dps rotation is abit wierd atm. You only gain a VERY small amount of dps when using FoF, my suggestion is only use it when you have 3 chi, rest of the time use this order.

    3 stacks of tiger>Rising Sun Kick>Blackout Kick.

    Fists of Fury will give you a small boost, with 496 gear it was about 0.7%. Which is hardly worth it and ofcourse its if you can pull off a perfect rotation. Also if you decide to use FoF dont use FoF and Energizing Brew to close to eachother, this will minimize the time you have to wait for energy. Also a trick i use is that if i get a free blackout kick i prioritize that above building chi, but not over RSK.

  10. #10
    ok, I looked over your armory and, as expected, found you in caster gear. grats on the staff btw. so as for your gear I cannot comment, tho you do seem to be missing some enchants and such on your caster gear.

    so, first things first. Engineering. great choice. but would be far better if you actually leveled it. the tinkers are great for both dps AND heals. I also noticed that your 2nd profession was still un-chosen. this will have an effect on both healing AND dps. I recommend leatherworking. eng + LW = unbrokenIwin button.

    Theres a great deal of...controversy...about tigereye brew. I personally follow a simple rule. don't clip it. I don't worry about stacks, i just use it when it falls. some people have even macro-ed it into some attacks to take it out of the equation. I'm not sure how that would work, I do know it's NOT on the GCD. but again. do not clip.

    Fists of Fury.....sigh. such a disappointment. i'n not going to go into its worth or compair it to path of blossoms, but there are reasons that some monks just aren't using it anymore. but as for general rotation questions, the above posters have hit it on the head. do that. im not going to contradict them.

    as for general stat questions. 7.5% hit, 7.5% exp. agil > haste > crit > mastery. tho i personally susspect that there's a magic mastery number.

    you may also want to get a good reforger addon.= like reforgenator or reforgelite. both are on curse.

    so, I see you needing a wide variety of general/basic re tooling. I'm assuming your a fairly new player so i wish you well. GL HF.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Isollae View Post
    so, I see you needing a wide variety of general/basic re tooling. I'm assuming your a fairly new player so i wish you well. GL HF.
    There's no need to be snarky with me, I'm asking for a bit of advice.

    Engineering/LW was my plan, I'm just gathering up the materials to power level when I have the time, unfortunately due to the holidays and family visiting I haven't had much time to do that, mostly just hop on do dailies and raid. That was my intent though, I'm not wasting 500g on iLevel450 shoulders, nor 1000g on a LFR belt that I'll be replacing soon as well, but thanks for insulting me on my knowledge of the game.

    I probably should have been more specific, I'm asking what am I doing wrong in the rotation.

    So far I've improved by not clipping tigers eye brew, I use it between 4 and 5 stacks and that itself is a really big improvement already, tiger power I never really let drop despite what the logs say (I'm really unsure as to why it's saying that the uptime is so low), and I have been using FoF as well, though as many of said it's a bit controversial. I'll try without it when I get a chance and see it rolls.

  12. #12
    Blademaster
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    I was going to take a peek at your WW gear, but it appears you're logged out in healing gear. Are you using a 2h, or dual wielding? With the second parse your Rising Sun Kick is way too high on damage done. You should be using Blackout Kick more. If you're using a 2h, Blackout Kick will be your most damage done over the fight, followed by your white hits. Dual Wield will almost always have your white hits first, then Blackout Kick. I only use Tigereye Brew at 10 stacks though.

    Also, don't use Fists of Fury very much. It's only really useful if you're low on energy, have 3 Chi, and Energizing Brew/Rising Sun Kick are on cooldown.
    Last edited by Remyi; 2012-11-28 at 12:42 AM.

  13. #13
    I'm dual wielding atm. I was under the assumption rising sun kick was high up on the priority list, am I only supposed to be using it to keep my debuff up on the target?

  14. #14
    Blademaster
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    Basically, RSK on cooldown, tiger palm for buff and refreshing of the buff, black out kick in general and FoF when low energy and you know you wont cap.

  15. #15
    the deul-weild cap sucks i think that could be ur issue my monks weapon atm is a polearm i have an item level of 430 im doing 45k until the gear matches that of actually needing 2 weapons a 1 hander with 8% hit works just well for me. i can work on my other stats then needing to worry about having so much to worry about actually hitting a target.
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  16. #16
    Mechagnome Jaja's Avatar
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    FoF should not be your 3rd highest damage ability. It being there shows me you are using it at the wrong time.
    I would just suggest not using it at all, as it is a very minimal DPS increase and most times if used incorrectly is a DPS loss.

    I wouldn't gem pure haste, I know askmrrobot says to but agility is still king, go AGI in Red, AGI/Hit in blues and AGI/Haste in Yellows.

    Reforging looks fine tbh, the biggest thing to me by your logs is defo FoF usage.

  17. #17
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyriaa View Post
    I'm dual wielding atm. I was under the assumption rising sun kick was high up on the priority list, am I only supposed to be using it to keep my debuff up on the target?
    He's not saying that you should RSK less, he's saying you should BoK more :P

    A typical WW damage distribution has BoK at the top with around 20-25% of your damage done (depending on how much you use FoF), then RSK and auto-attack both at ~20%. All other abilities should be at around 5% (FoF, Jab, Tiger Strikes, Tiger Palm, BoK DOT, ToK).

  18. #18
    Alright so I think I got it now.

    Basically FoF is just a way to regen energy so I don't end up with empty globals.

    So then:

    Tiger Strikes > RSK > BoK > FoF when energizing brew is on cd, when tiger strikes won't fall and RSK is on CD and not enough energy for jab after a BoK.

    In otherwords, I won't be using FoF in very much in a 4-5 minute fight.

  19. #19
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyriaa View Post
    Alright so I think I got it now.

    Basically FoF is just a way to regen energy so I don't end up with empty globals.

    So then:

    Tiger Strikes > RSK > BoK > FoF when energizing brew is on cd, when tiger strikes won't fall and RSK is on CD and not enough energy for jab after a BoK.

    In otherwords, I won't be using FoF in very much in a 4-5 minute fight.
    Pretty much. I end up using FoF no more than 3 times in any boss fight. Make sure that every tick hits if you do use it. Also, FoF becomes a huge DPS loss if you exceed 14% haste.

    Edit: The reasoning is that FoF doesn't function like other attacks, and actually clips a tick at the end if you go above 14% haste.

  20. #20
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    This bug got fixed in 5.1, it always ticks 5x now. As long as you don't cap energy, don't let TP fall off and dont delay RSK by too much, you should always use FoF.

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