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  1. #41
    The best part of this whole discussion about how hard it is for a new comer coming into PVP will be even more fun soon. That crafted gear put up against Conquest gear that has been upgraded will be just awesome to watch
    ...Made it through 9 years of wow...

  2. #42
    While the op is wrong on multitudes of levels, he is right regarding one thing... that the ilevel disparency is too high.
    I'm not just talking pvp, im including the issue with pve... gear ilevels are beginning to jump too much each time.
    You'll begin at 450 ilevel for PVP and finish 491 in 5.1, that's only 41 levels which isn't TOO horrible considering you'll be 464 fairly quickly even if you are just a casual PVPer.
    Now compare this to PVE where the gap is from 450 to 524, pretty ridiculous. It's not the fault of blizzard regarding PVP directly it's moreso they screwed up PVE and used that as a base for PVP gear.
    They should've considered a better approach concerning gear:
    Justice/Heroic/AoA weapons - 458
    LFR - 463 epics
    T14 - 476(and valor gear) (489 heroic). This would mean that PVP gear would be looking at 450/457 with conquest gear priced at 470/483. Much better, but sadly blizzard made the PVE jump too large and PVP gear suffered as a side effect.

    Oh, if they had done this I wouldn't have got to stagform dance on a hunter's corpse who kept trying to kill me in a BG the other day after eating him with an FB as resto. The poor pvp gearless hunter.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarella View Post
    While the op is wrong on multitudes of levels, he is right regarding one thing... that the ilevel disparency is too high.
    I'm not just talking pvp, im including the issue with pve... gear ilevels are beginning to jump too much each time.
    You'll begin at 450 ilevel for PVP and finish 491 in 5.1, that's only 41 levels which isn't TOO horrible considering you'll be 464 fairly quickly even if you are just a casual PVPer.
    Now compare this to PVE where the gap is from 450 to 524, pretty ridiculous. It's not the fault of blizzard regarding PVP directly it's moreso they screwed up PVE and used that as a base for PVP gear.
    They should've considered a better approach concerning gear:
    Justice/Heroic/AoA weapons - 458
    LFR - 463 epics
    T14 - 476(and valor gear) (489 heroic). This would mean that PVP gear would be looking at 450/457 with conquest gear priced at 470/483. Much better, but sadly blizzard made the PVE jump too large and PVP gear suffered as a side effect.

    Oh, if they had done this I wouldn't have got to stagform dance on a hunter's corpse who kept trying to kill me in a BG the other day after eating him with an FB as resto. The poor pvp gearless hunter.
    In your OP, do you see PVE gear being used in PVP with that big of a jump? Not sure if pvp power can cover that gap.
    ...Made it through 9 years of wow...

  4. #44
    This to me makes as much sense as someone "starting to clear PVE content late" and whining that they should get BiS heroic gear from normal bosses in a week, instead of working for it as the people who have been progressing the raids for ages already.. Uhm,no. You snooze you lose.

  5. #45
    Mechagnome Mr. Casual's Avatar
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    i feel you.... it honestly confuses me as well how people can defend this model and actually in way seem to enjoy winning due to their overwhelming gear. Seems like people are always looking for an edge in pvp and willing to say anything to justify it. In my mind as a true competitor you would want your opponent to be on an even playing field with you so the winner is determined and if you want anything else than your just looking to noob stomp to stroke your epeen not real competition.

    and NO its nothing like pve. If you behind in gear you run heroics lfr until you drop and the worst thing about is you just sit at the bottom of recount. In pvp you lose bgs/arena etc which makes it harder to get the points/honor for gear. Your success has everything to do with gear and success is much harder to achieve without the gear. Anybody can be pull through a heroic or lfr or a regular raid by decent/ good raiders much harder to do in a bg and arena.
    Last edited by Mr. Casual; 2012-11-27 at 02:29 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesus View Post
    This to me makes as much sense as someone "starting to clear PVE content late" and whining that they should get BiS heroic gear from normal bosses in a week, instead of working for it as the people who have been progressing the raids for ages already.. Uhm,no. You snooze you lose.
    That's just sloppy thinking I'm afraid - in your example the person starting to PVE late has no reason to whine because the bosses they're required to kill are wearing the same gear now as they did when MoP started. With PVP, the latecomers are having to kill players wearing much better gear than at the start of MoP. Your example would be valid if bosses upgraded their gear each week, but they don't, so it's not.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    That's just sloppy thinking I'm afraid - in your example the person starting to PVE late has no reason to whine because the bosses they're required to kill are wearing the same gear now as they did when MoP started. With PVP, the latecomers are having to kill players wearing much better gear than at the start of MoP. Your example would be valid if bosses upgraded their gear each week, but they don't, so it's not.
    Point was, he's whining that he doesn't have as much gear as the people that have been playing longer than him. To me that is enough to not make sense. You want the gear, you put in the same effort as the people that have said gear. And I don't see the reason to whine, people in bg's are full of bots anyways now according to these forums, and you can even just queue to bgs and watch a tv show or whatever and get the honor etc. But in PVE then again you can't just go into a heroic raid and slack, at least not yet. Two way street, anyways, point; effort = gear, no effort = no gear (except in LFR or botting bgs).

  8. #48
    The weapon with PvP power I can somewhat understand and while I don't fully agree, I see that not having a PvP weapon early on can be a large gap.

    Other than that though... I believe that there is no real issue here.

    The people with full Malevolent gear ground it out, and they ground it out for quite awhile. I got into PvP two weeks late because my Disc Priest was such a bag of crap in Beta for this Expansion that I rolled a Resto Druid at MOP launch and had to level.

    I got Dreadful full in a week. I do Sha weekly and if you do dailies enough to get your 3 tokens at least once every three weeks you have 3 sha runs with double chances at Malevolent loot.

    Random Battlegrounds and Call to Arms gives you Conquest. You can't reach full weekly cap with it, but neither can you with Arena. And honestly the gearing of people in Random BGs is terrible. IF(and I rarely do) enter them at my current gearing state I'm unkillable. But at the same time.... There's no reason for me to do them.

    People who are serious about grinding out their malevolent gear will do Arena and RBGs. This means your Random BGs might have 1 or two people with top end gear, but the rest will be lesser geared. And BGs are about the OBJECTIVE and if you don't understand that and are worried about the one or two people in your BG with Malevolent weapons hitting harder than you then you need to review your concept of the game.

    Overall it sucks and is a grind yes. I agree with that. But the people that devote the time to be the best at this aspect of the game should net the rewards faster than someone who PvPs casually or doesn't have the ability to invest as much.

    I'm sorry but if I'm going to devote my time to PvP when I'm online I want to outgear someone who PvPs when they don't have a raid or are valor capped and aren't doing Heroics. PvP is my Profession, not my hobby, in this game. So outgearing someone who isn't bringing the same time to the table seems correct to me.

    You aren't handed Raiding gear by NOT raiding are you?
    RAWR!

  9. #49
    Honestly the dreadful / malevolent difference isnt too big. Theres only like 30 more power/resil on the malevolent since they buffed the dreadfuls power and resil after making it blue. I mean obviously the malevolent is better but its not unreasonable.

    Its really just the weapon, easily a 50% or more damage increase for some classes if you dont pve, and the 640 some odd resil you get.

    Oh yea, and theres even less to complain about now that everyone gets a baseline 2200 conquest cap if you get an rbg in.

  10. #50
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Playintrafic View Post
    Dont like pvp in wow, quit playing wow. Pvp has allways been an afterthought in wow.
    .0


    is that why they nerf abilities in pve because of pvp, think lynx rush it may have been op in pvp but was fine in pve

  11. #51
    Blademaster bigdom510's Avatar
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    I understand what you are saying, now a days its hard to sift out the bads, so everyone wants ratings, certain gear, etc to even invite you to Rbgs. I personally have exp, ratings, and gear on my main, but on my alts i don't. I is hard to gear up both characters when i can't find anyone to play with on my alt because i don't have t1 wep. Now days all the high rated players know each other and play together and mostly only with each other. I mean i'm no top tier player, my highest rating is 2200 which isn't even really that good...anymore. All i'm saying it is hard to be top geared, because if your not its hard to find people to play with. And now they are bringing in this new thing to use points to upgrade your ilvl on gear. Now i don't really think its that big of a deal but when you start a new charcater, which is already behind in gear, now you have to worry about getting full gear, then working on your weapon which takes weeks, and now you have to farm more points to get your ilvl even higher. So starting a new character a few months into a season is almost out of the question, because it will take so long to catch up with everyone, and how are you going to catch up if no one wants to play with you because you dont have weapon and its not upgraded. I really don't care that much because my main is just a little behind, but what if i get bored and want to level an alt, its almost out of the question now.
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  12. #52
    Stood in the Fire NPSlow's Avatar
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    The silliest thing to me is people with the mindset that just because they started the season late, they are "never going to catch up".
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  13. #53
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fables429 View Post
    Starting a season late puts you so far behind, that in a "pvp" setting is just fuc%ing stupid.

    -----

    My suggestion is give conquest points for each win in arena, instead of by week. (Something like if you win 300 games, you should have enough pts to buy every piece you would need.)

    Or better yet, make it like sPvP in Guild Wars 2. Where skill is the only thing that matters, kinda like SC2, Counter-Strike, Halo, Super Smash Bros., Street Fighter, every great pvp game....
    You realize that if blizzard removed the weekly caps and allowed people to get all their points on day 1 by playing until they got like 500+ wins (300 is way too low), people would complain about being Obligated to play 1000 arena games on day 1 of the season to get their points because everyone else is doing it (or rather, somebody did it - and therefore to be competitive, everyone must do it). The weekly cap is there for your protection, just don't reroll mid season - wait till next season to reroll your main if you are halfway through already. But, just so you know - this season is Far, Far from over.
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