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  1. #81
    Alright. I just read the entire AMA and here is what I honestly think:

    About the game:
    I just typed /age on Gw2 and it says "587 hours and 6 minutes". It is true that I have not been playing that much, sometimes I go online play some WvW or sPvP, and I was there for the Lost Shores, other than that I'm not playing much simply because alot of other games caught my attention like AC3, Hitman and alot of the Steam Autumn sales stuff. Of course some hours are AFK hours, but my main character is level 80 fully exotic geared and he has 50% of the map.

    About the WvW:
    I can agree that WvW was "left" out of updates and should at least have more news of the plans for it. But I disagree regarding the AoE or zerg stuff or even PvE stuff in it. I do think there is a lot to be done beyond any doubt (across the whole game too) but..

    (Ill answer towards the points you raised Bovinity but just because you brought them all up in a good manner)

    - AoE cap altho could be handled differently is something I actually like making the AoE less Boss (and we all know it is boss and bring problems in every game) the only thing I would prob do differently would take the cap out and make it less powerful, but Im no dev.
    - Zergs, yes you are "encouraged" and they do get results and if you try is way more fun than mindlessly karma farming at Orr. But also it's up to you to break it off with a small group and play special task, I love it, and honestly it's part of the war. I already defended keep by myself on a ranger and I almost won against 20 invaders and I think it was just epic and I was the one building stuff (meaning nothing was already built for me) I killed over half and they broke in, killed one or 2 more and reinforcements got there but too late. I know you said about the strike force, but Idk what planet people are living, a ghost operation to get a supply camp that DOES help the team with 3 people is not only fun (which common is why everyone -should- play it) but do you expect to take over a castle by yourself?
    - Travel time, it sucks when you die and run back and at times I think "I dont want to run back" so Ill just do something else. But I think that's something good for the game, makes me fight for my life way harder even run if I have to.
    - Pve stuff. Yeah, I do think it's wierd at times but I often find a few souls doing the events and it does seem fun. I dont really see why not, I'm pretty sure all the sides of the battle have a portion of PvE lovers doing that stuff, and it's been a while since I got queues for WvW maybe for EB but didn't take too long. Some events even help the realm so why not? I sometimes feel like people don't see more than 1 side of the coin which is inevitably a goal for the devs and the best part is....in a "persistent" world finding a group of centaurs somewhere is not only cool but makes it feel real.

    This is just a story that happened to me in WvW. We were battling in front of a keep small groups, and it was pretty even and fun people going down, people helping people up and all all of the sudden a few quaggans and a vet show up on our side. The result was that only 2 of our team survived and a quaggan that kept pushing alone to the keep. It was pretty hilarious to be honest and I spoke on team and I found the lost soul who "recruited" them haha. We obviously didn't get the keep but it was a fun battle with a cute turn.

    About AMA:

    I have to agree with Gray Matter.
    The game has flaws? ALOT. But it's like any game that recently launched.
    Does some of devs decision leave us with a bit of a "fear"? Yes, like any other game you ever played with content updates.
    Did the AMA serve for something? Not much

    Now I ask everyone of you (and I'm sure it will be just the ones with negative answers that will actually answer lol)
    You are not paying it monthly and I dare you to post your screenshot /age here. You payed 60 bucks for it nothing more. I played skyrim for 60 hours and I was done with it and payed the same ammount and I think it was damn worth it.
    The AMA was vague of course and how could it not be? The game is full of flaws that require fine tweaking, tweaking that can only be done with extensive research of the data POS-Launch. And I for one thought that he actually was pretty humble (unlike many other companies) to accept their faults and say "We are working on it, I did a bad call and it was my fault". As a player I do feel like there is a LOT to be done, and alot of "promises of near future" that doesn't help us".

    Most of The AMA questions were about a misconception about the Ascended gear. The Pvp/WvW stuff is another area he couldnt answer, but If I'm not mistaken soon there will be a post/ama for that. Reading posts all over you can still see people are trying to play other MMOs upon Gw2 which leaves to obvious frustrations. I can't say anyone can win from all those facts.

    It's rather easy to be an expert of what should change on the game, but it seems no one cares about the impact it would turn overall. I have my strong opinions on classes/builds and PvE that are "heavy concerns" but I'm not worrying about it like most seem to do (Hell, I'm still paying monthly for 12months sub of a game I don't play and that's all for a game (that despite every single design seemed and still is very good) that didnt work well togheter for some reason which I maybe played 40 hours). The new vertical progression is far from havoc people are bringing in, the scaling difficulty for the more devoted too. People get offended that they put this stuff in when it's less than 1% of the game. I think they are doing a good job catering for everyone without making the others angry but everyone still thinks they are entitled to feel angry about that. It's hard to please and get us, people.

    So TLDR: I feel like everyone should actually look down a little bit or in a mirror maybe. I feel like the Halloween stuff and Lost Shore updates were awesome for a subless game so fresh (Specially the new dungeon, so cool. Its a classy better cavernsih of times). And along with it there were major flaws, the 1 time event, loot, the fragmentation of the players with the scaling difficulty and the grind mats part. But I still (for some reason) believe in it and I think the next few months they need to improve it for SURE! But I do think the community is very wishy washy and everyone loves complaining alot, let them do their job, the game is new, you are not paying more than you should after more updates we can sit and discuss.

    (this comes from someone who is not optimistic nor the opposite. Im very picky/critic and realistic and I do see the player side alot, I am one.)

    Feel free to eat me alive now

    Edit: Hahah you can use the TLDR by just reading my bold part. That wasnt intentional XD
    Last edited by Zilong; 2012-11-27 at 07:25 PM.

  2. #82
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    WvWvW needs some love for sure and that's not just about novelty wearing off. I reckon PVP especially WvWvW guilds are having a high player burnout rate now. I am seeing a lot less of the usual suspects.

    I wish their maps were more vertical with a underground paths and fortifications and some airships to take over in the air. I would put more positions to defend and hold and have key positions becoming more enhanced through them. Like real scouting/guard towers, bunkers and deployable walls. With side jobs like mine layers (mines being more deadly the more people are caught within blast radius and scrappers for underground-based siege. It is probably too much to ask for right now but I keep thinking about these things when seeing these roaming clusters of players sometimes.
    WoW: Crowcloak (Druid) @ Sylvanas EU (retired)
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I am not even kidding-- there was a lengthy conversation the other morning in vent over a monk's placing healing skills in reverse order on the bars for optimal healing or interruption. With about 4 or our GW1 monks each having a difference of opinion, further varied by encounter.

    That's real depth of design.
    I just wanted to chip in on this one: this was norm in GW1. Optimal placement of buttons to properly combo skills with extreme speed and precision was paramount to success in GW1. This didn't just go for monks (who were one of the most act<>react dependent characters in the game) but for more act>react characters like warriors and react>act characters like mesmers.

    GW1 on basic design level was built on same base as WoW - easy to get into, but incredible amount of depth as you learn the game. There literally was no player, at any point in the game, who could truly say that he mastered GW1, just like there's really no player who could say the same for WoW. Both these games have incredible amount of depth, and the more you dig, the more you find that you have far more to dig into.

    GW2 is exact opposite: fairly difficult to get into, and once you get the basics, that's it. There is no additional depth anywhere. There is nothing new to master. And it is receiving a lot of shit for it, something it completely deserves. Because designing things with this paradigm and advertising it to be "successor of a game with exact opposite" is lying.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    GW1 on basic design level was built on same base as WoW - easy to get into, but incredible amount of depth as you learn the game. There literally was no player, at any point in the game, who could truly say that he mastered GW1
    It's funny you should say this because our GvG monks said the exact same as bold. In nearly the same words.

    Just the degree of depth in a concept such as... hiding your true mana involved a cascade of composition, skill, build and oppositional considerations easily among the most intricate of concepts in execution of any video game.

    GW2 is exact opposite: fairly difficult to get into, and once you get the basics, that's it. There is no additional depth anywhere. There is nothing new to master. And it is receiving a lot of shit for it, something it completely deserves. Because designing things with this paradigm and advertising it to be "successor of a game with exact opposite" is lying.
    I struck out and snipped the bits of your post that were too zealous or incorrect. For example, GW2 is pretty straightforward. Not at all difficult to get into.

    The bulk of what you are saying is correct here in observable mechanics and spirit of design. The bolded part again is well stated, if a bit sharp. But I am a-okay with sharply pointed critique.

    You hit some real good points here, Lucky. Ones which I and guild mates have expressed as longtime players of the franchise.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilong View Post
    I think they are doing a good job catering for everyone without making the others angry but everyone still thinks they are entitled to feel angry about that.
    It's impossible to cater to both vertical and horizontal progression "lovers", so no, they're not doing a good job, they're pleasing the people who wanted vertical progression.
    GW2, according to devs statments before the release wasn't even made for people who like vertical progession in the first place (there's a reason I and at least one other person on this forum always said to people who want WoW 2.0 to stay away from GW2, now they caved in some more people are figuring out what was the reason).

    Don't mind throwing the "ascended is just 5% more powerful than exotics" and "you can do everything in greens" like some people on this very thread do.
    You can also do everything while naked and with just the utilities skills and I doubt anyone does it.

    As for the entitlement to feel angry, well, I feel entitled to feel that way.
    I was a promise a game with no vertical progression, no grind, a game who would be released near the state of perfection and I received a game with vertical progression, grinder than some f2p mmos, a game full of bugs with little to no (well done) profession balance.

  6. #86
    I just that their thinking that GW2 should always have a good or decent build is flawed. If they wanted to change it up for GW2 they should have at least gone the route that TSW has with their skill deck. If someone has a shitty build, so what.

    Also I feel that the utility skills have too long of cooldowns. They don't feel a part of the active combat. In GW1 almost every build was taken into consideration of the elite skill. Here the elite skills feel superfluous. I love the active combat of GW2, if only the GW1 deck building could have been a part of it. Just my opinion of course.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I just that their thinking that GW2 should always have a good or decent build is flawed. If they wanted to change it up for GW2 they should have at least gone the route that TSW has with their skill deck. If someone has a shitty build, so what.

    Also I feel that the utility skills have too long of cooldowns. They don't feel a part of the active combat. In GW1 almost every build was taken into consideration of the elite skill. Here the elite skills feel superfluous. I love the active combat of GW2, if only the GW1 deck building could have been a part of it. Just my opinion of course.
    One day, they shall make an MMO for us.

    All my "yesssssssssssssssss'", Doozerjun. All of them.

    I have long said that Secret World would be near my ideal MMO if the combat wasn't so... well, terrible. To be frank.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I just that their thinking that GW2 should always have a good or decent build is flawed. If they wanted to change it up for GW2 they should have at least gone the route that TSW has with their skill deck. If someone has a shitty build, so what.

    Also I feel that the utility skills have too long of cooldowns. They don't feel a part of the active combat. In GW1 almost every build was taken into consideration of the elite skill. Here the elite skills feel superfluous. I love the active combat of GW2, if only the GW1 deck building could have been a part of it. Just my opinion of course.
    Personally, I'm fine with how GW2 is, however, if they make the skill system into a sort of deck building system like TSW or GW1 I'd be fucking ecstatic, I liked being able to fight how I wanted with wha I wanted and then completely cha he how I played without changing a single weapon or pet or w/e

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 02:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    One day, they shall make an MMO for us.

    All my "yesssssssssssssssss'", Doozerjun. All of them.

    I have long said that Secret World would be near my ideal MMO if the combat wasn't so... well, terrible. To be frank.
    Huh, my issue was the sub fee lol
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  9. #89
    Elites in GW2 are basically what dervish forms were at release of nightfall. Retardedly overpowered game changers with hilariously long cooldowns. Only they nerfed them on actual power. Funnily they moved away from this design in GW1, because it was terrible design.

    And then they incorporated it as baseline feature into GW2. Everyone has their "little moment of overpoweredness" followed by a long cooldown. Except that they nerfed the "overpowerednless" factor so much, that it ceased to matter in many cases, and when it did matter, it usually didn't last long enough.

    I'll take my eviscerate/bull's charge/backbreaker (my olden GvG choices for axe/sword/hammer respectively) any day over GW2 elites. Or classic energy surge. These changed my gameplay style. They didn't just work as add-ons on top of it.

  10. #90
    Well again, elites are usually what you built around in GW1, in GW2 they are just ancillary.

  11. #91
    And on another note, if my "just like WoW" comparison on basis of "designing with easy to pick up, hard to master" aspect of games, essentially all modern blizzard games, and many others use this particular formula to create long term success for their games.

    Starcrafts, Diablos, WoW, pretty much entire MOBA scene, competitive FPS scene, all of these require the game to adhere to this formula. They would not be successful for years after release without it. I suspect the reason why WoW was built on the formula was because success of it was widely established by original starcraft and two original diablo games before it. It's probably the same reason why arenanet chose to base GW1 on the same concept, and it worked.

    Then they decided to chase the "casual" crowd, focused on bling and relative ease of access. And we got GW2. Which they were forced to market as "successor of GW1" for obvious marketing reasons, even though it was anything but.


    And for the record, GW2 is in fact fairly hard for a new player to get into as compared to most of the competition, such as GW1 or WoW. Disregarding the "chaos" model over traditional threat (and heal/tank/dps trinity) model largely borrowed from GW1, new players must learn that their most important baseline skill is knowing how to move and kite. Most games do not require that just to get playing properly, GW2 does beyond first couple of tens of levels. Unless you're playing a warrior or a guardian of course. Games like GW1 and WoW did not require this knowledge for basic gameplay such as questing and finishing the "main storyline quest/hitting max level". GW2 does, it essentially requires you to adopt a mix of FPS "strafe and nuke" and MMO "snare and run" approach.

  12. #92
    It's kind of why I like the combat, Lucky. I enjoy the action combat and I come from an FPS background so it comes naturally to me. If someone came from strictly mmos then I can see them struggling with it at first but it's not that hard to pick up in my opinion.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    One day, they shall make an MMO for us.

    All my "yesssssssssssssssss'", Doozerjun. All of them.

    I have long said that Secret World would be near my ideal MMO if the combat wasn't so... well, terrible. To be frank.
    It was originally designed for action combat but for some reason things got too "messy" and it had to be cut. They added it now but tbh it's just not as good as Tera because Tera was designed for action combat so the mobs are designed that way. TSW mobs are not. You still just stand there and just point a cursor now it's not really action combat.

    If they just sucked it up and stuck with their original plan things would of been a lot better for TSW. Probably would of blown Tera and GW2 out the window but alas they did not.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    It's kind of why I like the combat, Lucky. I enjoy the action combat and I come from an FPS background so it comes naturally to me. If someone came from strictly mmos then I can see them struggling with it at first but it's not that hard to pick up in my opinion.
    This, except replace FPS with hack and slash/RPG background..

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 08:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    Elites in GW2 are basically what dervish forms were at release of nightfall. Retardedly overpowered game changers with hilariously long cooldowns. Only they nerfed them on actual power. Funnily they moved away from this design in GW1, because it was terrible design.

    And then they incorporated it as baseline feature into GW2. Everyone has their "little moment of overpoweredness" followed by a long cooldown. Except that they nerfed the "overpowerednless" factor so much, that it ceased to matter in many cases, and when it did matter, it usually didn't last long enough.

    I'll take my eviscerate/bull's charge/backbreaker (my olden GvG choices for axe/sword/hammer respectively) any day over GW2 elites. Or classic energy surge. These changed my gameplay style. They didn't just work as add-ons on top of it.
    I really miss Lyssas Aura, and the old Signet of Illusion... Not to mention Crippling Anguish... Oh god how I miss Crippling Anguish!!

    I gotta say I really do miss the elites that the build was built around... Well especially on my ranger, cause you know... Famine, Enranged Lunge, Strike as One oh how I miss thee... Well I don't -miss- them because I played GW1 fairly recently but you get what I mean!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

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