Thread: Prot question

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  1. #21
    No hostility at all in here.

    Though fail to see how holding back on J / CS when you are not even HoPo capped is preparing.
    Also using J over CS does not help in that either.

    His filler usage is actually not that questionable. Only how he priorize refreshing Cons over other abilities basically wasting 30% of the cons.

  2. #22
    Its not like consecration is a dot, is there data out there proving that putting down a consecration overtop of another nullifies the first?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 11:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    There seems to be an awful amount of hostility in this thread, a mod really should consider closing it because nothing of value will come of it.

    His rotation seems to be based around two critical engenders:
    1. Prepping for spike damage to prevent deaths: My kill of this fight is on 25 so it's a different scenario, but basically you can be hit for 800k in two swings from the boss and be decimated without SoTR up. It's extremely obvious that his main goal of his rotation is to always ensure he has the means to generate a SoTR whenever it's needed outside of his usual output. This means tripping on his CS/J's serves a purpose beyond maximising SoTR output.

    This is shown by the fact that his first 3p SoTR comes at 1:25 when he experiences a spike. The next isn't for another minute, and so on.

    2. Maximising damage output with respect to vengeance.

    https://sites.google.com/site/matlab...0-5/505_AD.png

    As is fairly typical, any decent player will adjust their rotation depending on their vengeance levels. In this case he floats around 100k vengeance because of 10 mans, in the case of 25 man you see spikes of up to 400k vengeance where the rotation changes further.

    I can't find the necessary files to run the sim at 300k, which is the normal level that 25 man would be based around. Irrespective of that, he's compromised on those general desires to meet in the middle. Can't deny there's errors, with so much shit going on and heavily monitoring your damage intake you can never maintain a flawless rotation. Maybe on HM Stone Guard.

    But I can say with certainty that this isn't the train wreck you people seem to insist it is. He's up there as one of the world's best paladins irrespective of some errors in his rotation, errors that didn't prevent him from achieving a tip top empress kill.
    This is a very interesting post. Is there a chart out there that plots changes in single target usage priority at certain vengeance "thresholds"? Rather than just at 100k vengeance?
    Last edited by silverhatred; 2012-11-27 at 04:53 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    Its not like consecration is a dot, is there data out there proving that putting down a consecration overtop of another nullifies the first
    Yes.
    Try it yourself, takes around 9-10 seconds to test it.


    As long as you are not under some glyph modifier ( focused shield, final wrath during <20% )
    which filler you use is not really important unless you recast cons which is a big dps drop.

    Rather sure that when theck modelled different rotations at 100k vengeance.

    GC>HW>Cons>AS turned up the best rotation.
    GC>HW>AS>Cons was a whopping 27 dps behind. ( 0.0311% behind )
    GC>AS>HW>Cons modelled 233 dps behind. ( 0.269% behind )

    In the end, which filler you use is not that important, unless it is multi target / glyphed AS, in which filler rotation becomes more important.
    What is important is however to prioritise CS>J over anything else when tanking.


    @Choice

    I can not really say there is "alot of shit going on" on the first phase of Empress as a tank.
    You tank and spank the boss, taunt off tank before the other get to many stacks, help out the raid with a BoP, HoS, SS or WoG etc, whatever that is needed. Hardly a fight that requries much focus from tanks especially in P1.

    "1. Prepping for spike damage to prevent deaths: My kill of this fight is on 25 so it's a different scenario, but basically you can be hit for 800k in two swings from the boss and be decimated without SoTR up. "

    I do not know how the boss hits in 25, but in 10 man, he hits like a sissy. Just looking at some logs between different guilds. He melee hits for an average of 120-130k ( This is discounting blocks and absorbed attacks. Only counting FULL hits. )
    On paladin tanks it is even lower averaging about 115k. That is hardly a 2 shot. Even if for some god reason it manages to hit 200k 2 attacks in a row, still not dead.

    So really, high damage spikes for tanks is not really a valid reason.

    But, hey lets for a minute say that it was. That this fight was insane on tank damage. You said yourself that any decent tank would optimise his dps rotation after vengeance levels.

    Would you also agree that any decent tank adjusts his SotR after the bosses melee swing?
    But wait, now you might "Yeah, but boss swing timer was adjusted to 1.5s in mop making it irrelevant when you cast SotR since SotR covers 3 sec = always 2 melee swings".
    Which would be correct if the previous assumption was correct. MOST bosses have a 1.5 sec swing timer. Empress is on a 2s swing timer. Not to mention that empress often stops to cast spells during which time she interrupts her melee attacks for about 2.5-3.5 seconds depending on how she stops to cast.

    Granted, if you cast randomly, your SotR will still cover an average off 1.66 attacks. However counting in the interrupts for spell casts, that numbers would lower to ( pulling number out of my ass a.k.a. educated guess ) around 1.4-1.5 attacks instead of two.

    So optimizing your SotR uses with swing timer would increase its effectiveness by about 33% in this fight. This is something that is not done in this video. So, if his goal was to optimize damage taken and reduce spikes, he is not doing the most major part of it. Now, I am not saying that this needs to be done on this fight as tank damage is very low. Just saying that your assumption that this is what he is doing is just plain wrong. Several points in the fight does he cast SotR right after a boss melee swing and several times during casts. At 1 point in the video he casts a SotR that covers 0 melee hits due to the boss stopping and casting. Not saying that this is game breaking, just saying that it is clear that he is not optimizing his damage taken ( simply because it is not needed ). Also, when he taunts the boss the second time, he has like 60% hp after the bomb explosion, he taunts the boss with 4 hopo and 60% health yet does not use SotR so the first melee hit drops him to 30% hp. Clearly, damage taken is not in his concern.

    It feels like people are trying to justify his rotation when there is just no justification for it other that fatigue and long raids.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2012-11-27 at 06:01 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Yes.
    Try it yourself, takes around 9-10 seconds to test it.
    Well I would but servers are down and all.

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