Thread: Four quickbars

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  1. #21
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelyorc View Post
    No one should be ridiculed or pointed out for either subscribing or doing F2P.

    People should have fun playing and accept the fact that what YOU like may not be what OTHERS like.
    I wish this were true. I think part of this might be backlash against all of the ridicule and abuse subscribers get on general forum sites for supporting the game.

  3. #23
    It's not a republican outlash, and there is no commentary that I gave on the people who are listing things higher than the credit cap (which, for the record now, is mostly ignorant by those who are listing things over the cap). However, it can be applicable if, for instance, a sub player is buying things off the GTN to give to a friend who is f2p. Just saying.

    My complaint is the guy who is saying that sub players shouldn't be able to set market prices for f2p items. If you're f2p, then you are subject to what's going on. You can't ask to play the game for free and then also ask that everything be given to you so that you can play the game for free but get the full (or almost full) benefits of someone paying their sub. There would be no reason to be a sub player.

    I pay my sub. I damn well SHOULD have much more control over the game and SHOULD receive more than a f2p player.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 11:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelyorc View Post
    No one should be ridiculed or pointed out for either subscribing or doing F2P.

    People should have fun playing and accept the fact that what YOU like may not be what OTHERS like.
    I'm not ridiculing the fact that people are playing for free. I'm glad more people are experiencing the game. I have a few friends who tried f2p and are now subbed. I think that's great.

    I'm ridiculing people asking to have all of the things that I pay for, and the person who suggested that subbed players shouldn't be able to set prices for items. That's downright ignorant.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    I pay my sub. I damn well SHOULD have much more control over the game
    You are a player. You should have almost no control over the game
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    and SHOULD receive more than a f2p player
    You already do, but there you were ranting about people wanting handouts and referencing specific Republican politcal mantra. Actions and words do not match.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    I pay my sub. I damn well SHOULD have much more control over the game and SHOULD receive more than a f2p player.
    No. You shouldn't.

    F2p is a different payment model. Not inferior, not superior. Different.

    Your 15 dollars does not make you a superior member of the swtor community. Plenty of people will spend that or more as f2p.

    You don't deserve more say. Period.

    As the f2p model gets fleshed out in the days to come I wouldn't be surprised if they expand the model to the point where you can do hm/nmm ops and ranked wzs. At which point the f2p model will be a complete model equal to subscription.

    If anyone should be catered to it should be f2p. Subscribers are clearly happy if they are dropping 15/mo. And so far EA has bent over more for f2pers in the past month than it has for subscribers in the past year.
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-11-27 at 04:37 PM.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    No. You shouldn't.

    You don't deserve more say. Period.
    I deserve the right to be able to list whatever items I want on the GTN for whatever price I want. That's the issue at hand. I'm not talking about control of "the game" in general, silly.

    It's a response to the guy saying that the sub players shouldn't be allowed to list items for so much on the GTN, and then someone else asking for credit-capped prices on the GTN.

    If you want items that are too expensive, sub. If you're a subbed player who is ignorant enough to list things for f2p players and you list them over the credit cap, that's your own stupid fault for being an idiot.

    Either way, we don't need credit caps on GTN items, and we don't need to be making sure sub player are selling things for cheap so people don't have to pay as much for them.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    Either way, we don't need credit caps on GTN items, and we don't need to be making sure sub player are selling things for cheap so people don't have to pay as much for them.
    I was offering two solutions to the problem. I wasn't advocating either and I said that EA wouldn't do either of them.

    We don't really need a communist economy in the game, that would be terrible. It just would solve the specific problem. A much more realistic and acceptable solution would be to charge less coins for these items. It would allow subscribers to have more buying power with their stipend, drive prices of these items down lower, and also make it easier for F2P players to be enticed to purchase unlocks from either method.

    Unfortunately the caveat being that EA would make less money. So yeah, that's not going to happen either.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I was offering two solutions to the problem. I wasn't advocating either and I said that EA wouldn't do either of them.

    We don't really need a communist economy in the game, that would be terrible. It just would solve the specific problem. A much more realistic and acceptable solution would be to charge less coins for these items. It would allow subscribers to have more buying power with their stipend, drive prices of these items down lower, and also make it easier for F2P players to be enticed to purchase unlocks from either method.

    Unfortunately the caveat being that EA would make less money. So yeah, that's not going to happen either.
    Solving the specific problem would create a handful of others, though.

    The overarching point is that they're never going to make every player happy. And every player who isn't happy feels the need to come on message board and tell others that [whatever game] is terrible because of [whatever issue].

    I'm not a Call of Duty fan, but I love Halo. I've never bought a COD game, but I've also never been on their forum talking about how much I hate it. I just don't understand why people think this is a way to solve problems.

    Maybe I'm too old. It very well could be that.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    Solving the specific problem would create a handful of others, though.
    I'd like to know how exactly providing more things for your money would be a problem for anyone other than the company having to be less greedy.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I'd like to know how exactly providing more things for your money would be a problem for anyone other than the company having to be less greedy.
    You could drive away subscribers because they don't feel like there's any value in the subscription. Every item in the cartel shop has the potential to be sold for credits. More items and more options could lead to fewer subscribers seeing value in their subscription.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrin View Post
    You could drive away subscribers because they don't feel like there's any value in the subscription. Every item in the cartel shop has the potential to be sold for credits. More items and more options could lead to fewer subscribers seeing value in their subscription.
    ...let's take a moment to let that sink in

    1)Lowering the costs of items in the Cartel Market provides your stipend with a greater buying power (as you can buy more items)

    2)Adding more Extras/fun items in the shop give you a wider variety of things to buy with your stipend.

    3)Additionally, I specifically mentioned perks for subscribers. Think things like increased commendations from daily FPs and Space Missions. Discounts on legacy unlocks from credits. Etc.

    How exactly this would make a sane person feel that a subscription isn't worth it is beyond me.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    ...let's take a moment to let that sink in

    1)Lowering the costs of items in the Cartel Market provides your stipend with a greater buying power (as you can buy more items)

    2)Adding more Extras/fun items in the shop give you a wider variety of things to buy with your stipend.

    3)Additionally, I specifically mentioned perks for subscribers. Think things like increased commendations from daily FPs and Space Missions. Discounts on legacy unlocks from credits. Etc.

    How exactly this would make a sane person feel that a subscription isn't worth it is beyond me.
    I think that this is pretty important.

    Artifact unlock is essentially 9 to 12 USD depending on coin pack size. It is going to be hard to convince people that 9/12 dollars is worth 350k credits.
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  13. #33
    I logged in a few days ago after being unsubbed for a few months, found I'd have to pay to be able to use all my abilities, and promptly logged out again. My main joy in the game comes from leveling alts, but if I couldn't even do that properly I wasn't gonna bother.

    I'm really glad to hear this change though, as that was my main gripe (I can live with all the other free to play restrictions). I'll probably play again once this goes live.

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  14. #34
    If the only "benefit" of subscriber is supposed to be stuff on the Cartel Market I wouldn't bother to subscribe. How does it become valid to get more "coins or commodations" for your daily flashpoint etc.? No you shouldn't get more... F2P player should get less because otherwise you completely overthrow the balance currently existing in the game. Meaning... currently it "feels" like you have to do something for your black hole gear, it feels you have to put some work to get your pvp gear. If all rewards will be doubled or trippled for subscribers... I have my stuff even faster, meaning I wouldn't bother to log in as often as I do now.

    They don't need to put silly restrictions like actionbars, rewards or conversations... things which can really hurt your leveling up experience but from there... You want to raid? buy your raid pass. You want to do pvp, buy your pvp pass. You want to do both... well being subsribed is cheaper... let's subscribe.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Parrin View Post
    You could drive away subscribers because they don't feel like there's any value in the subscription. Every item in the cartel shop has the potential to be sold for credits. More items and more options could lead to fewer subscribers seeing value in their subscription.
    The Subscribers are a problem, that much is true, the reality is when they went free to play they needed to axe subscriptions and make money off the cash shop alone. Their preferred customers needed to be the focus all along, and 'enticing' free players to pay, instead of the method they went with.. which is to smash free player's skulls against a concrete wall at every turn for not paying. Plenty of fully functionally, and lucrative, Free to Play MMOs make their money off of things that the player just 'wants', whether the thing they want is because it looks neat or whatever, it makes money - enough to keep the game making money.

    There was never any point to the model the EA-Bioware went with, in their supposedly free to play model, other that excessive greed. It functions wholly off of depriving players of all sorts of things, very basic functions included, in order to force them to pay, or get out, rather than enticing them to spend money on neat stuff.

  16. #36
    You can't convince me that the subscribers are the problem in this situation.

    Subscribers' game experience has not changed, except for the addition of the Cash Shop, since launch. It was a good experience and still is, and that's why I'm still subscribed and a lot of others are as well.

    I take the viewpoint that the problem is with people who originally subscribed, quit, and then came back under the f2p model, paid nothing, and expected the exact same experience (many under the guise that they 'deserved' something because they used to be a subscriber - which is wholly laughable). These are the people who are pissing and moaning on the forums, poisoning General chat with their rants, and are generally causing havoc. These are the people who should just get out of the experience altogether. They are not happy, they won't be happy. They want the full experience they had when they subscribed, but don't want to pay for it.

    In reality, if you take the system for what it IS... i.e., NOT compare it to LOTRO, or WOW, or whatever other thing... then it works, and it works fine. There is a f2p model. There is a much better experience available to subscribers.

    It's like my Kindle Fire. It comes with the basic experience. If I want to remove ads, I pay extra. If I want to subscribe to Amazon Prime, I get a shitload of things (movies, music, books, etc) as part of that subscription. But the basic experience is good as well and it works. It may not be everything I want, but if I choose not to pay extra, I'm certainly getting what I paid for.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    many under the guise that they 'deserved' something because they used to be a subscriber - which is wholly laughable.
    It's not so much the subscription as the 60 dollar investment that people are frustrated about. By removing the initial cost of the game and not offering anything to those who paid it, it certainly does read as a pretty big fuck you from EA. Now, I, personally, have been down this road with a few other MMOs and wasn't excepting much in return. I was angered by their vague "you got coins! oh wait, no you have to resub for that." stuff but that has less to do with being owed anything and more to do with how fucking awful their PR peeps are.

    I think its pretty understandable that people would be pissed after investing 60-150 dollars on the box only to see it free less than a year later and them not even receive a title or mount for it. I think something small like that would have soothed a lot of the rage. Give people tauntaun mounts or something. That would have been a great idea.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    In reality, if you take the system for what it IS... i.e., NOT compare it to LOTRO, or WOW, or whatever other thing... then it works, and it works fine. There is a f2p model. There is a much better experience available to subscribers.
    That's the issue though, SWTOR doesn't exist in a vacuum. LOTRO, WoW, DCUO, Aion and all the other MMO's still exist, so it's going to be compared to all of those things.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    I think its pretty understandable that people would be pissed after investing 60-150 dollars on the box only to see it free less than a year later and them not even receive a title or mount for it. I think something small like that would have soothed a lot of the rage. Give people tauntaun mounts or something. That would have been a great idea.
    I just think to a lot of people that stuff is very 'meh.' To be fair, we did receive the FOUNDER title, but I never use those because I use my Legacy name anyways.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 11:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    That's the issue though, SWTOR doesn't exist in a vacuum. LOTRO, WoW, DCUO, Aion and all the other MMO's still exist, so it's going to be compared to all of those things.
    But it doesn't HAVE to be compared to all of those things. The problem is that to be really dedicated and good, you probably are only going to be playing one anyways. You can't be a hardcore raider in two MMOs. Pick one, and don't worry about the others is all I'm saying. If you don't like Aion, play Rift. Don't like Rift, play WOW. Don't like WOW, play SWTOR. Don't like SWTOR, play LOTRO. Don't like LOTRO, play GW2.

    Free market, you don't HAVE to like everything, and companies don't HAVE to try to cater to every gamer (nor should they try).

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    I just think to a lot of people that stuff is very 'meh.' To be fair, we did receive the FOUNDER title, but I never use those because I use my Legacy name anyways.
    That was for preorders. There were about 8 (?) months where players paid at least 60 dollars to play swtor who are receiving nothing more than a 5 dollar status.
    Even when people feel "meh" about items like a tauntaun mount, being acknowledged, even in a small way, helps people not feel screwed.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 04:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    But it doesn't HAVE to be compared to all of those things. The problem is that to be really dedicated and good, you probably are only going to be playing one anyways. You can't be a hardcore raider in two MMOs. Pick one, and don't worry about the others is all I'm saying. If you don't like Aion, play Rift. Don't like Rift, play WOW. Don't like WOW, play SWTOR. Don't like SWTOR, play LOTRO. Don't like LOTRO, play GW2.

    Free market, you don't HAVE to like everything, and companies don't HAVE to try to cater to every gamer (nor should they try).
    The problem is that people take payment models into account when valuing a game.
    I happen to view swtors f2p model as viable but in need of a few changes. If someone views the model an not viable, they are probably not going to play the game.
    For example, Allods (spl?) has an amazingly ridiculous grind that boarders on abusive to f2p accounts. In my opinion, f2p should be either able to grind to play or pay to play but when the grind is too great it is used to bully people into subscribing. Some people think swtor does the same thing with its restrictions. I have never tried Allods after seeing its payment model. If I thought the same of swtor, I wouldn't try it.
    Its important to have a competitive model.
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